How to properly beat a horse. Please allot 16 hours. This is mandatory.

[Knight]

Used my DD214 for the permit as well. Only qualified once on a Beretta M9 in over 20 years of service. Everything else was M16A2 and M4.

I do plan on taking some courses in the future because I am sure I will learn something......at a minimum, the courses can give you time spent around fellow gun owners.

 

[woodline]

I like it better when there is no concealed carry permit necessary and the government has to prove in a court of law why a specific individual is both fit to remain in society but unfit to keep and bear arms. They should have to get a permit for each case. Frivolous prosecution is dangerous so they’ll need to get a permit for each one, which involves the official bringing charges getting fingerprints, passing a background check, going through an intense 16 hour training course, and making it through a personal interview in which they must justify themselves to a judge. Once they have turned in all the necessary paperwork, the permit will be mailed to them within 90 days. They must have this permit on their person at all times while they are bringing suit. And they’ll need to have extended liability insurance in case of any negligent prosecution, paid at their own expense.

 

[rambling_one]

I served in the military under the auspices of an alphabet agency. My "certification" for armed courier duty was done on base. No where on my DD214 is this reflected. I consider the training exemption to be an extension of the blank check I signed. People bitch because LE, business owners, those with high clearances get a break. Let it go, folks. We're able to carry now...surely that's enough.

 

[teratos]

I served in the military under the auspices of an alphabet agency. My "certification" for armed courier duty was done on base. No where on my DD214 is this reflected. I consider the training exemption to be an extension of the blank check I signed. People bitch because LE, business owners, those with high clearances get a break. Let it go, folks. We're able to carry now...surely that's enough.

My friend, I can’t let it go.

Either training is necessary or it isn’t. If training is SO important to our safety, there really should be no exemptions. What about a DD214 gives you familiarity with MD firearm laws, and civilian carry? You may have had excellent training. Most people with a DD214 do not. Then there is the renewal training. Do people with DD214s remember things better than the rest of us? If I shoot a lot, why do I need an 8 hour refresher course when a guy who left the military 40 years ago as a chef can resubmit his DD214?

I respect your service, but mandatory training either needs to be applied evenly, or preferably it needs to go. I do not like classism.

 

[Kanly]

My friend, I can’t let it go.

Either training is necessary or it isn’t. If training is SO important to our safety, there really should be no exemptions. What about a DD214 gives you familiarity with MD firearm laws, and civilian carry? You may have had excellent training. Most people with a DD214 do not. Then there is the renewal training. Do people with DD214s remember things better than the rest of us? If I shoot a lot, why do I need an 8 hour refresher course when a guy who left the military 40 years ago as a chef can resubmit his DD214?

I respect your service, but mandatory training either needs to be applied evenly, or preferably it needs to go. I do not like classism.

My feelings exactly.
I have an honorable discharge from many many years ago. Exactly what does that prepare me for in any way the ccw requirements of any state?

I have many friends and family that are in or were in the military. Some were Ranger Regiment and some are Naval Surface Warfare or Human Resources (after Army Artillery) or Medical or Civil Affairs.

None of that in any way prepares any of them for civilian ccw. All it means is that at some point in time they learned how to clean their weapon and they maybe once a year qualified at the range.

For my friends who were in the sandbox the ROE there has absolutely nothing to do with what the law is here CONUS.

And for somebody who got out in the 70s or 80s or who was a mechanic or clerk or nurse?

Give me a break.



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[BurkeM]

Thanks for your input. A lot of what I heard regarding the military (as a civilian who could not serve) is that folks in uniform do not receive training in the use of discretion that LEO's do. My understanding is that military training is, and I know this is an over simplification, more binary, meaning shoot the guy in the wrong uniform, and don't shoot guys in friendly uniforms.

You’re misinformed.

Modern military servicemen over the past 20+ years have received hundreds of hours of training in the extremely restrictive rules of engagement used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Nobody facing the military in the past two decades was in uniform- the hostile forces were civilians carrying various firearms and explosives.

The veterans who fought in Vietnam for 20+ years fought against enemy forces that rarely wore a uniform- guerillas and insurgents looked like everyone else in the neighborhood.

In Afghanistan and Iraq, many of our people were shot and killed by local nationals wearing “friendly” police and army uniforms.

 

[Inigoes]

My friend, I can’t let it go.

Either training is necessary or it isn’t. If training is SO important to our safety, there really should be no exemptions. What about a DD214 gives you familiarity with MD firearm laws, and civilian carry? You may have had excellent training. Most people with a DD214 do not. Then there is the renewal training. Do people with DD214s remember things better than the rest of us? If I shoot a lot, why do I need an 8 hour refresher course when a guy who left the military 40 years ago as a chef can resubmit his DD214?

I respect your service, but mandatory training either needs to be applied evenly, or preferably it needs to go. I do not like classism.

Are you making a 14th amendment claim?

Seriously think it over, talk about it with a lawyer, and challenge it in court.

 

[CMSGT]

You’re misinformed.

Modern military servicemen over the past 20+ years have received hundreds of hours of training in the extremely restrictive rules of engagement used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Nobody facing the military in the past two decades was in uniform- the hostile forces were civilians carrying various firearms and explosives.

The veterans who fought in Vietnam for 20+ years fought against enemy forces that rarely wore a uniform- guerillas and insurgents looked like everyone else in the neighborhood.

In Afghanistan and Iraq, many of our people were shot and killed by local nationals wearing “friendly” police and army uniforms.

You're right of course, but forget about it. Those who are so inclined to dismiss the reality of what you speak, appear for the most part, butt hurt they don't qualify...

 

[teratos]

Are you making a 14th amendment claim?

Seriously think it over, talk about it with a lawyer, and challenge it in court.

It would be a 14th Amendment claim, I’d imagine.

 

[OldBrokenGrunt]

Beating a dead horse here. DD 214 gets the waiver. That’s how it is. I have already stated my peace concerning why I feel it is good practice.
It’s not a veterans fault, that’s just how it is. So being upset that veterans get a pass on training is pointless.

If a veteran feels that they need to have a 16 hour training session to be competent and confident enough to carry a handgun then they can seek it out voluntarily.

Complaining about a DD214 waiver is the same as people complaining about LEO’s who only fire a weapon when they qualify annually with their weapons?

 

[teratos]

Beating a dead horse here. DD 214 gets the waiver. That’s how it is. I have already stated my peace concerning why I feel it is good practice.
It’s not a veterans fault, that’s just how it is. So being upset that veterans get a pass on training is pointless.

If a veteran feels that they need to have a 16 hour training session to be competent and confident enough to carry a handgun then they can seek it out voluntarily.

Complaining about a DD214 waiver is the same as people complaining about LEO’s who only fire a weapon when they qualify annually with their weapons?

Nope. You’re completely missing the point.

“Just how it is”.

I’ll go sit in the back of the bus.

 

[Kanly]

You're right of course, but forget about it. Those who are so inclined to dismiss the reality of what you speak, appear for the most part, butt hurt they don't qualify...

Exactly what in OCONUS training/ROE over the last 20 years qualifies anyone on the state specific ROE (if you will) regarding ccw?

How many states are duty to retreat and how many are not?

99% of people with a DD214 have no clue as to what their state requirements are but somehow a magical pice of paper makes them exempt from any training requirement?
No it doesn't.

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[RoadDawg]

My friend, I can’t let it go.

Either training is necessary or it isn’t. If training is SO important to our safety, there really should be no exemptions. What about a DD214 gives you familiarity with MD firearm laws, and civilian carry? You may have had excellent training. Most people with a DD214 do not. Then there is the renewal training. Do people with DD214s remember things better than the rest of us? If I shoot a lot, why do I need an 8 hour refresher course when a guy who left the military 40 years ago as a chef can resubmit his DD214?

I respect your service, but mandatory training either needs to be applied evenly, or preferably it needs to go. I do not like classism.

A person who has trained for weeks is not “exempt”. THEY’VE ALREADY TRAINED. and for a hell of a lot more than 16 hours in most cases.

As a GP… would it be fair to demand that you take a 16 hour EMT course before you can apply a bandage to a roadside crash victim?

 

[teratos]

A person who has trained for weeks is not “exempt”. THEY’VE ALREADY TRAINED. and for a hell of a lot more than 16 hours in most cases.

Come on, man. Most people with a DD214 touched a rifle a couple of times and went on to their assignment.

The DD214 exemption is just an example of why actual training is not something they are interested in at all. They want to put in a roadblock.

IT’S AN ARGUMENT FOR HAVING NO TRAINING REQUIREMENT, NOT FOR HAVING OTHER PEOPLE DO IT TOO.

I’ve trained for 40 years. Where’s my balloon?

 

[CMSGT]

Exactly what in OCONUS training/ROE over the last 20 years qualifies anyone on the state specific ROE (if you will) regarding ccw?

How many states are duty to retreat and how many are not?

99% of people with a DD214 have no clue as to what their state requirements are but somehow a magical pice of paper makes them exempt from any training requirement?
No it doesn't.

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While I can't speak for what others do, all the legal information I needed is available on the MD web sites or other states web sites. When I attended mandatory training for my Utah permit, I didn't learn a darn thing, that I hadn't already learned during research on their web site. However, you do you and I'll do me and, "we will both be free".

I'll refer you to my response in I believe it is post 137, concerning my general belief in training. When I as an individual feel I need informational training, I'll be the judge of that.

 

[antco]

A person who has trained for weeks is not “exempt”. THEY’VE ALREADY TRAINED. and for a hell of a lot more than 16 hours in most cases.

As a GP… would it be fair to demand that you take a 16 hour EMT course before you can apply a bandage to a roadside crash victim?

Hundreds of thousands of people in this country with a DD214 that literally NEVER handled or were trained on a pistol while in the military. That’s a fact. So how does a DD214 reflect any competence or qualification for the person to carry a handgun in adherence or compliance with MD law?

As for the ROE commentary earlier in the thread from others not RD, ROE in a combat zone has just about zero to do with a self defense decision logic to shoot or escape. Even if it did, what percentage of the military actually experiences combat? Maybe 10%?

 

[Bullfrog]

A person who has trained for weeks is not “exempt”. THEY’VE ALREADY TRAINED. and for a hell of a lot more than 16 hours in most cases.

As a GP… would it be fair to demand that you take a 16 hour EMT course before you can apply a bandage to a roadside crash victim?

Apples and oranges.

Using the DD214 as a waiver is more like saying everyone that works in a hospital and can prove it with a W2 is qualified to provide emergency medical care.

Cafeteria workers, administrators, janitors, maintenance personnel...

 

[teratos]

Apples and oranges.

Using the DD214 as a waiver is more like saying everyone that works in a hospital and can prove it with a W2 is qualified to provide emergency medical care.

Cafeteria workers, administrators, janitors, maintenance personnel...

Zachary

 

[RoadDawg]

Exactly what in OCONUS training/ROE over the last 20 years qualifies anyone on the state specific ROE (if you will) regarding ccw?

How many states are duty to retreat and how many are not?

99% of people with a DD214 have no clue as to what their state requirements are but somehow a magical pice of paper makes them exempt from any training requirement?
No it doesn't.

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And most of the folks sitting through these sometimes bogus and often proven wrong “Training sessions”… don’t have a clue either. But the paper says they do, once they’ve completed only 16 hours of time filled with BS.

 

[Growler215]

So in this thread we have:

DD214 holders - mostly thankful for getting a pass

"Grouches" - I had to do training so you should too

Instructors - vested interest in requiring as many people as possible get trained/ re-trained

Statists - "please may I have another"

Constitutionalists - nobody should have to get training (can include DD214 holders)

Anybody I'm missing?