Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
No. The handgun roster list is legally binding - if it's not on the list, it can't be bought from a dealer in Maryland.
HK to release new SP89 clone! !
- Thread starter Boss94
- Start date
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No. The handgun roster list is legally binding - if it's not on the list, it can't be bought from a dealer in Maryland.
It's legally binding as a list of what's for sale. It is not legally binding as a list of assault weapons.
If I felt like taking the MSP to the mat, I could buy a Walther Uzi pistol (erroneously listed by the roster board as a copy of the Uzi pistol on the assault pistols list), file a 77r for the transfer, and then take them to court when they denied it.
Not the same gun as the one on the AP list. The Skorp on the assault pistols list was made by Armitage as the "Skarab Skorpion".
Yes but the reverse it not technically true. It may be on the roster but still illegal to buy. IIRC there is an UZI on there. Still not legal to buy those in MD because of another law. They were on there so that SBRs/AOWs could be sold. So there are definitely firearms on the roster that are NOT legal for sale as pistols. Just because the roster makes it allowable to buy does NOT automatically make it legal for YOU to own.
I know thats what it should be but thats NOT how its on the banned list in 4-301(?). It just says "Skorpion semiautomatic pistol." Does not mention Armitage or CZ so the law as written appears to apply to anything with that name. I don't see how someone w/ a vz61 could defend a court case if they were charged. Just like we know that the "bushmaster" listed in the assault weapon list isn't the same bushmaster as today but it doesn't stop them from being not sold in the state.
What we know so far the Zeniths (and even HKs new SP5K) are SP89 compatible. Being on the roster makes them allowable to purchase. But does it make them legal to own? The roster does not allow one to ignore ALL the other laws does it?
Waz
SHAZAM!!!
There was some discussion about that not long ago about Masterpiece Arms Defenders (MAC 10/11 lookalikes)
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=191562
Which UZi are you referring too? They are not putting pistols on the roster with foresight that someone would want to SBR them. If that was the case what guarantee is there that you actually filed your Form 1. What's the time frame, your going to be in possession of an illegal firearm for 4 months? Don't think so....
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I may have an idea how they pulled this off: From posts on hkpro, the hk trig packs will NOT drop into a Zenith firearm. They need to be modified in the front and back. The grip housings are interchangeable but the packs are not. Since no unmodified HK packs will fit into a Zenith/MKE they likely can't be deemed 100% compatible
Clever on Zeniths part.A handgun doesn't have to be on the roster to Form1 SBR it. Handgun roster only limits what a dealer can SELL. Any form4 SBR USED to have to be on the roster to be sold. There are guns on the roster that don't even exist as pistols. The PS90 is a good example. Back in the day you could buy a rifle (<- rifle requires no handgun roster approval) PS90 and form1 SBR it yourself. You can make guns/pistols not on the roster if otherwise legal to own. You could also move into MD from another state w/ guns not on the roster. But back in the day, dealers couldn't sell you a form4 pre-SBR'ed PS90 until it was on the roster.
That's not how the list works.
It's not a list of names, it's a list of "firearms". It makes no sense to regulate a copy of a name.
I understand how the roster works. The PS90 is on the roster because SBRs had to be in the roster. That's not a fair example. I am referring to new firearms like the Zenith. You mentioned that you wouldn't trust the roster and therefore you would SBR the Zenith. You have to trust the roster to SBR the gun, if not there is still a record of an illegal purchase.
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No. You can buy from an 07 like Duffys/Engage as an AOW or SBR on a Form4. But see my post 49: Zenith may have been able to get around the assault pistol ban w/ the denial of an HK trigger pack. That is an important new pc of information.
Hey guys,
Hate to bring up an old thread but I need some advise. I am looking to buy one of these HK MP5 clones. It's kind of narrowed down to three choices. The Zenith Z-5RS , POF-5, or the Omega OM5-FS.
Even though I own a PTR-91 .308 rifle, I have limited experience with rolling lock guns. Anyone have a favorite? Should I avoid one? I really do not know what to look for. I have done some research but any advice would be appreciated.
This is my opinion so far, but I am still undecided which one to buy.
Zenith Z-5RS I think has a "newer" three position (SEF) plastic style lower that uses pins to hold it in the front. Comes with three magazines and a cleaning kit. Pretty sure it has a semi bolt carrier. Mid Priced.
POF-5 I think has an "older" two position (SE) metal style lower that uses pins to hold it in the front. Comes with one magazine. No idea what style bolt carrier. Lowest priced.
Omega OM5-FS Has the "newest"? style (navy?) three position (SEF) plastic lower that uses a shelf and fake "pins" in the forward pin holes. Comes with one magazine. Highest price.
All three have paddle magazine releases and barrels with both the three lugs and threaded.
I am kind of leaning toward the Zenith but I don't want to overlook the Omega if it is a lot better and I just don't know it. The money is not that much different. Also the POF is the lowest priced. It might be the better buy.
Probably going to keep it as a pistol. I am really more of a AR guy but I have always wanted a MP5. Just want to get one like this before there is a sway in the political breeze.
Let me know your ideas and if I am missing anything.
Thanks.
Hate to bring up an old thread but I need some advise. I am looking to buy one of these HK MP5 clones. It's kind of narrowed down to three choices. The Zenith Z-5RS , POF-5, or the Omega OM5-FS.
Even though I own a PTR-91 .308 rifle, I have limited experience with rolling lock guns. Anyone have a favorite? Should I avoid one? I really do not know what to look for. I have done some research but any advice would be appreciated.
This is my opinion so far, but I am still undecided which one to buy.
Zenith Z-5RS I think has a "newer" three position (SEF) plastic style lower that uses pins to hold it in the front. Comes with three magazines and a cleaning kit. Pretty sure it has a semi bolt carrier. Mid Priced.
POF-5 I think has an "older" two position (SE) metal style lower that uses pins to hold it in the front. Comes with one magazine. No idea what style bolt carrier. Lowest priced.
Omega OM5-FS Has the "newest"? style (navy?) three position (SEF) plastic lower that uses a shelf and fake "pins" in the forward pin holes. Comes with one magazine. Highest price.
All three have paddle magazine releases and barrels with both the three lugs and threaded.
I am kind of leaning toward the Zenith but I don't want to overlook the Omega if it is a lot better and I just don't know it. The money is not that much different. Also the POF is the lowest priced. It might be the better buy.
Probably going to keep it as a pistol. I am really more of a AR guy but I have always wanted a MP5. Just want to get one like this before there is a sway in the political breeze.
Let me know your ideas and if I am missing anything.
Thanks.
I was in the same boat and got a sig mpx instead. Very happy with it.
ST19AG_WGreymon
Ultimate Member
I have a Zenith Z-5RS. I compared it at my LGS to a real HK MP5, practically identical. It does have a blocking bar to prevent installation of a full-auto carrier. The lower housing is easily exchanged with an MP5-compatible housing so long as it's not clipped and pinned:
https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/MP5-Trigger-Housings-c242.htm
The trigger pack will only allow you to go between safe and semi, there is a small protrusion in the trigger pack that can be drilled out to allow it to go to the full position, while still being in semiautomatic.
I hear the POFs are good but the finish is a little rougher compared to the Zenith.
I haven't researched the Omega manufactured clones. However it seems that the Zenith clones are a popular choice right now.
Let me know if you have any questions regarding the Zenith.
I have not heard of this blocking bar. How does that work? I kind of figured that the bolt carrier would be the same other than the slot that is cut differently on the bottom, trigger pack side. Any chance I could get a picture?
Just for the record, I have no intention to turn any gun into a full auto anything. I like guns for the mechanics of it. I love a good Rube Goldberg.
The Omega OM-5 seems to be a collaborative effort between Atlantic Firearms and HKpart.com to build a MP5 clone. Lots of American made parts as well as German. Don't know where the receivers are made. Probably here in the states.
.,
I am going to re-post some information I found about Zenith so I can find it here easily for reference in the future. This was written by someone at Zenith.
Here is a some additional info folks.
Zenith Firearms redesigned the Z series after they were not satisfied with the 2009 MKE design and after investigation and consultation at the 2014 SHOT Show. Their desire was to make them easier for a 922R conversion and more authentic if compared to the original design.
Zenith originally had a MILSPEC factory built Reverse Stretch but after MKE engineers said they would not stand behind the reliability requirements for the shorter barrel and longer rear, it was decided to use the longer barrel and call it the RS. This seems to have caused the most consternation with roller lock fans!
These are the changes Zenith made:
Zenith had the magazine well modified by having a pin welded in it so the rifles will only accept modified magazines designed to only hold 10 rounds (due to ATF import restrictions). This pin is easier to remove than the bars that were welded in the 2009 MKE design. If legally removed (after a 922R conversion), any original roller lock magazine will function in it.
Zenith had the 10-round magazines that accompany the rifles modified by having a groove cut in the side to mate with the pin (described above), so only they work in the rifle. If a rifle is legally modified (after a 922R conversion) by the removal of this pin, the magazine will still work in it, or any other original roller lock.
Zenith redesigned the lower trigger housing to use the original design of two take down pins. Any original roller lock lower will fit on the Z series and the Z series lowers will fit on any original roller lock.
Zenith continued the older design of a small block welded to the upper that mates with a hole in the front of the lower; this will block the lower from being mounted IF it has a full auto trigger pack in it (due to ATF import restrictions). This block cannot legally be removed, except by a Type 7 FFL with a Class 2 SOT.
Zenith redesigned the placement of the full auto bolt carrier block, moving it from deep in the front of the receiver to the rear of the receiver (this too is required due to ATF import restrictions). This block cannot legally be removed, except by a Type 7 FFL with a Class 2 SOT.
Zenith also moved back to the original MILSPEC barrel profile so that all accessory hand guards could be utilized. The larger profile from the 2009 MKE design interfered with the heat shield in some hand guards and also added extra weight.
Zenith also added the Navy style 3-lug barrel end with a ½ X28 threaded end so that customers could utilize additional accessories. It comes with a thread protector that fits under accessories.
Zenith also added the original 15X1 RHM threaded end to the 5.56 and 7.62 rifle barrels and designed and included a muzzle brake (due to ATF import restrictions).
All the firearms have the MILSPEC Manganese Phosphate finish that has a very high hardness and superior corrosion and wear resistance, and the 5.56 caliber firearms also have the additional MILSPEC Nitrocarburizing process done throughout.
Zenith also decided to include 3 magazines in each kit, as well as a M1913 Picatinny optics rail, an original sling (per model type) and a cleaning kit. They decided upon a 5 year warranty, upgraded the carry case to a more rugged design with a molded interior and redesigned the manual to much more modern standards.
Zenith is working to offer several hardware options installed through their custom shop such as additional hand guards, butt stocks and colors, and Zenith Firearms is importing all the original MKE parts for service, repair or modification.
The firearms shipped from Kirikkale today and are arriving this week. And yes, it is possible for Customs to hold up imports, however, Zenith logistics manager (who has handled all ZQI Ammo imports) has worked with their customs broker to ensure every i is dotted and every t crossed and they expect an easy approval.
I hope that helps answer many questions!
I should add that this statement was dated Feb 2014.
.,
Here is a some additional info folks.
Zenith Firearms redesigned the Z series after they were not satisfied with the 2009 MKE design and after investigation and consultation at the 2014 SHOT Show. Their desire was to make them easier for a 922R conversion and more authentic if compared to the original design.
Zenith originally had a MILSPEC factory built Reverse Stretch but after MKE engineers said they would not stand behind the reliability requirements for the shorter barrel and longer rear, it was decided to use the longer barrel and call it the RS. This seems to have caused the most consternation with roller lock fans!
These are the changes Zenith made:
Zenith had the magazine well modified by having a pin welded in it so the rifles will only accept modified magazines designed to only hold 10 rounds (due to ATF import restrictions). This pin is easier to remove than the bars that were welded in the 2009 MKE design. If legally removed (after a 922R conversion), any original roller lock magazine will function in it.
Zenith had the 10-round magazines that accompany the rifles modified by having a groove cut in the side to mate with the pin (described above), so only they work in the rifle. If a rifle is legally modified (after a 922R conversion) by the removal of this pin, the magazine will still work in it, or any other original roller lock.
Zenith redesigned the lower trigger housing to use the original design of two take down pins. Any original roller lock lower will fit on the Z series and the Z series lowers will fit on any original roller lock.
Zenith continued the older design of a small block welded to the upper that mates with a hole in the front of the lower; this will block the lower from being mounted IF it has a full auto trigger pack in it (due to ATF import restrictions). This block cannot legally be removed, except by a Type 7 FFL with a Class 2 SOT.
Zenith redesigned the placement of the full auto bolt carrier block, moving it from deep in the front of the receiver to the rear of the receiver (this too is required due to ATF import restrictions). This block cannot legally be removed, except by a Type 7 FFL with a Class 2 SOT.
Zenith also moved back to the original MILSPEC barrel profile so that all accessory hand guards could be utilized. The larger profile from the 2009 MKE design interfered with the heat shield in some hand guards and also added extra weight.
Zenith also added the Navy style 3-lug barrel end with a ½ X28 threaded end so that customers could utilize additional accessories. It comes with a thread protector that fits under accessories.
Zenith also added the original 15X1 RHM threaded end to the 5.56 and 7.62 rifle barrels and designed and included a muzzle brake (due to ATF import restrictions).
All the firearms have the MILSPEC Manganese Phosphate finish that has a very high hardness and superior corrosion and wear resistance, and the 5.56 caliber firearms also have the additional MILSPEC Nitrocarburizing process done throughout.
Zenith also decided to include 3 magazines in each kit, as well as a M1913 Picatinny optics rail, an original sling (per model type) and a cleaning kit. They decided upon a 5 year warranty, upgraded the carry case to a more rugged design with a molded interior and redesigned the manual to much more modern standards.
Zenith is working to offer several hardware options installed through their custom shop such as additional hand guards, butt stocks and colors, and Zenith Firearms is importing all the original MKE parts for service, repair or modification.
The firearms shipped from Kirikkale today and are arriving this week. And yes, it is possible for Customs to hold up imports, however, Zenith logistics manager (who has handled all ZQI Ammo imports) has worked with their customs broker to ensure every i is dotted and every t crossed and they expect an easy approval.
I hope that helps answer many questions!
I should add that this statement was dated Feb 2014.
.,
ST19AG_WGreymon
Ultimate Member
My Z-5RS will accept any capacity HK magazine. :/
I have my PTR-91 with an S-E-F lower because it looks awesome. It's a shame that my Z-5 will not go to the "F" mode.
I have my PTR-91 with an S-E-F lower because it looks awesome. It's a shame that my Z-5 will not go to the "F" mode.
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
I think they're specifically talking about the carbine version there, because it has to meet 922R requirements.
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