Help! RE: 7.62x25 reloading

[toolness1]

Very interested to see how this turns out. My Tokarev dies are on their way. Nice to know what to expect.

Hopefully yours goes smoothly with no issues!

I'm looking forward to working on this tomorrow, have a bunch of stuff to try...

Found a place online called Diamond K brass that sells once fired brass. They didn't have any 7.62x25 listed on their site, but said to contact them for calibers not listed.

I did, and they want 25 cents a piece for once fired 7.62x25. (plus shipping) Ouch!!

I think I'll spend 15 cents more a piece for loaded commercial rounds and save the brass...

 

[Melnic]

yes, I'd rather buy new PPU than just cases. Only trouble is lately, they are hard to find. My Tok Recovery is about 80% at the indoor range so I got another box of 50 at Chantilly.

 

[brandofire]

Hopefully yours goes smoothly with no issues!

I'm looking forward to working on this tomorrow, have a bunch of stuff to try...

Found a place online called Diamond K brass that sells once fired brass. They didn't have any 7.62x25 listed on their site, but said to contact them for calibers not listed.

I did, and they want 25 cents a piece for once fired 7.62x25. (plus shipping) Ouch!!

I think I'll spend 15 cents more a piece for loaded commercial rounds and save the brass...

That is crazy! I have been setting aside 223 brass with damaged necks and shoulders to cut down. Midway sells starline new brass for about 20 cents, out of stock of course. Best of luck to you

 

[toolness1]

That is crazy! I have been setting aside 223 brass with damaged necks and shoulders to cut down. Midway sells starline new brass for about 20 cents, out of stock of course. Best of luck to you

Yep, I bought a little pipe cutter and have lots of .223 available and have been studying the process on how to convert. Even got me an "M" drill bit to ream the necks. I just hope I'm one of the lucky ones with extractors that will catch the .223 rim without issues. It's smaller, some people's guns won't extract it reliably.

I have probably 350 empty cases, and probably another 400 rounds of factory ammo (7.62x25). So I'm not hurting or anything. I just don't know how many reloads I'll get out of these before they wear out. I may look into annealing the necks.

Starline.... I wonder why their brass is so much shorter for the 7.62x25. I think they make the 7.62x25 like once a year. My dad managed to get 500 from them last year. I live a couple hours from Sedalia MO, where Starline is located, as well as Sierra bullets. Sierra sells factory seconds, but honestly the discount isn't that great. You can buy other brand's non-seconds for less than the price of Sierra uglies.

I'm about 37 miles from Midwayusa, and consider myself pretty lucky for that. No, they don't have the best prices, but being able to hop in the car and go grab a much needed part/component/accessory is really nice. Grafs has much better prices and is about 50 minutes away. But their good prices mean they are always sold out of everything

 

[toolness1]

Ok, so far I am having success with my first 5 test rounds.

I chose 5 primed cases that were all .978-.979'' out of my tub of once fired primed/sized brass.

I flared the cases a LOT. To where the Hornady 86gr SP/RN (.30 Mauser) bullet will seat damn near to the cannelure (.046 inches between case mouth and cannelure to be exact) just by hand. This is way more flare than I was using before.

Charged the 5 cases (irrelevant but with 9.1gr AA#7)

Then I tried to adjust my seating die per a few peoples suggestions. One person said screw it down to touch the case mouth, then back out one turn. Well, if I back it out one turn, I can't get shorter than 1.333'' OAL because the seater stem is screwed all the way in.

So, I wanted to shoot for the OAL listed in the Lee load data which is 1.316''. To get this OAL with the bullet I'm using, I could only back out about a quarter turn on the die from touching case mouth.

I placed the bullets very carefully on the flared case mouth, trying to get them straight as possible. I then seated them very slowly and carefully.

Next I put the factory crimp die in my press. I've seen conflicting instructions on how to do this, but I went by the sheet that came with the die. You screw the FCD down to touch the shell holder, then 1/2 more of a turn past touching. It also says to use the minimum crimp you can, so I ended up screwing it down to touch the shellholder, then about 1/4 turn past. The knurled cap on the FCD is screwed all the way down (my sheet of instructions makes no mention of this, but in a video from midwayusa the guy adjusts that cap on the top to adjust the crimp....???) I know I am getting a crimp because with the large amount of flare I was using, there was a noticeable bell on the case and of course it wouldn't chamber after simply seating the bullet. The FCD corrects this of course.

So, 5 rounds down and each one drops in and falls out of the M57 barrel I'm using as a case gauge!

I've already tested this powder charge and OAL, and it is accurate enough and functions well, so I'm going to load up 20 or so. I'll let you know how they turn out.

 

[Winterborn]

Glad to hear you figured it out, I figured it would be the neck flare causing the rounds to bind and the seating die crushing the case a tiny bit.

 

[toolness1]

Glad to hear you figured it out, I figured it would be the neck flare causing the rounds to bind and the seating die crushing the case a tiny bit.

Yeah it is nice to have it figured out, I appreciate everyone's suggestions!

I figured I was flaring it enough not to cause that, as I've loaded for bottleneck cartridges before. But this was a different beast.

More good news, just scored 93 lbs of diving weights made from wheel weight alloy and 28 boxer primed brass 7.62x25 cases at the scrap yard.

Sure beats having to pick out all those stupid clips from the wheel weights...same price too.

 

[toolness1]

If anyone is looking for bullets for reloading 7.62x25, I found a place that sells a cast bullet specifically for the .30 Mauser/Tokarev.

I just ordered some to try out. They are 92 grain RN .310 for $33.02 per 500
http://www.kingshooters.com/30-mausertokarev-p-25528.html

 

[Winterborn]

If anyone is looking for bullets for reloading 7.62x25, I found a place that sells a cast bullet specifically for the .30 Mauser/Tokarev.

I just ordered some to try out. They are 92 grain RN .310 for $33.02 per 500
http://www.kingshooters.com/30-mausertokarev-p-25528.html

I have the Lee mold that drops that bullet. Powdercoat them and shoot as fast as you want....

 

[toolness1]

I'm going to buy that mold as long as these shoot well, which im guessing they will.

Sent from my XT901 using Tapatalk

 

[toolness1]

Oh my GOD, I'm going to lose my damned mind over this cartridge.

So I have the Hornady 86 grain .308 SP/RN figured out, working fine, etc.

I figured I would try another type of bullet. I have the Hornady 90 grain .309 XTP on hand. It's a much longer bullet, and of course it's .309 vs .308.

I tried loading some dummy rounds with the same amount of case flare that I used for the 86 grain .308, NO DICE. It won't chamber just like it was doing before.

So I figure "Ok, just need MORE flare"

I adjust for more flare, and now I'm getting to the point where it just looks stupid I'm having to flare it so much. The neck is about to split.

Seated a 90 grain .309 and I could feel it had so much more resistance than the 86gr .308.

Then I went to crimp it, and the case neck is still belled out some (since I'm not using any crimp with my seater die) and the neck catches on the crimp die and scratches up the case neck.

I really have a feeling this brass will not last long having to flare it so much, and I don't think you guys are having to flare such a crazy amount to seat these bullets.

I have 3 different M57 barrels sitting there that I'm using as a gauge, so it's not just this one pistol or anything.

This is ridiculous.

I did the magic marker test to see where these new dummy rounds with the .309 XTP are binding, and it's the same exact spot... It's jacking up the cartridge just under the shoulder as shown in the pic I posted.


I don't know what to do now. I have 500 .310 93 grain bullets on the way, and they will be even worse than these .309 XTP bullets, so that's not very promising. I don't want to have to rely on just one bullet, and have it be the .308 86gr SP/RN.

Anyone that loads that 90 grain .309 XTP, what OAL are you using? I tried 1.335 and 1.316. The only thing I could see that would help is making it longer, but I'm worried the bullet will hit the rifling and bind that way.

Back to the drawing board...... Any ideas? Chamfer?

I can't believe this is giving me so much trouble

 

[toolness1]

When some of you get a chance, could you measure the inside diameter of the case mouth on a resized case?

Mine is coming out of the sizing die with an inside diameter of .298-.300 at the mouth.

Outside diameter is .324 to .325

Doesn't seem right to me!

 

[Melnic]

I don't have my load book but isnt the max OAL higher and don't you have more room to increase it some? This still does not make sense to me and my limited Tok reloading.
My flair is just enough to set the bullet in it and not fall over.

This is a good question, If you have a copper jacket bullet, then switch to a lead that is .001 larger, will it require MORE(cause its larger) or LESS (cause its softer) force or just the same (cause they offset) to seat?

When I don't have my 9mm sizing die low enough, my FCD on my 9mm will rub on the sides.

Have you measured a before and after sizing at the top and bottom of the neck?

 

[toolness1]

I don't have my load book but isnt the max OAL higher and don't you have more room to increase it some? This still does not make sense to me and my limited Tok reloading.
My flair is just enough to set the bullet in it and not fall over.

This is a good question, If you have a copper jacket bullet, then switch to a lead that is .001 larger, will it require MORE(cause its larger) or LESS (cause its softer) force or just the same (cause they offset) to seat?

When I don't have my 9mm sizing die low enough, my FCD on my 9mm will rub on the sides.

Have you measured a before and after sizing at the top and bottom of the neck?

I do have room to increase it, but If I do (on this XTP) I'm pretty sure the bullet will contact the rifling and bind there, too.

I picked my OAL based on the Lee load data.

I don't think my brass is being sized properly. The brass is having to open up from .298 to .309 during seating, seems like too much to me. But I can't find the inner case neck diameter anywhere. All the measurements I find are for the finished cartridge, which is always going to be a bit different from the sized brass since you're seating a bullet in it.

I'll go try one @ max OAL and see what happens.

 

[Melnic]

Here are some measurements I took
I will say that with most bullets my calipers show .001 smaller than what the box says
The Hornady bullets measured .307
ID of the mouth when sized was .302
ID of outer edge I mouth when expanded was .306
Just at shoulder is .375 after sizing and after seating and FCD
PPU brass with thickness at mouth of .011
Mouth OD after sizing is .325
Here are some pics:
Sized case shown

 

[amoebicmagician]

hmmm.

I guess the wall of the case is not being supported during seating. Seems like if it was you could hulk the crap out the lever seating it with no problem...

 

[j8064]

I've been watching this thread only because I've been successfully loading 7.62x25 using a variety of components for about 20 years. I began when there was no published reloading data nor components to be had - anywhere. Y'all have taken "over thinking" a non-existant issue to a new level IMHO.

If your reloading dies are adjusted correctly (whatever brand) for each reloading step, your finished rounds will function correctly. If they don't, then there are only two possible issues: The firearm - or the reloader and his process.

7.62x25 is basically a miniature bottleneck rifle case. Think of it that way on your press. Be more careful as you process your 7.62x25 reloads. They are more dainty, but they reload about the same.

Some posts talk about using reformed 223 cases and lead boolits. Building your own ammo that works well from beheaded 223's is easily done.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=136724

Best of luck...

 

[coopermania]

When you look at the third picture in post 35, I believe the OP is not fully resizing the case. The case is not being sized to the bottom of the bottleneck. Are you camming over the press when you resize your cases .

 

[Melnic]

When you look at the third picture in post 35, I believe the OP is not fully resizing the case. The case is not being sized to the bottom of the bottleneck. Are you camming over the press when you resize your cases .

Do you realize Post 35 is not from the OP.
Those are my pics. I'm not having a problem.

JJones, I think toolness is trying to figure out what is wrong with his process and he's asking for help. Personally, I'll pass on the 223 conversion.

Toolness, when I picked the bullet, I chose something someone else already used. Have you found info to suggest the bullets you chose will work ok?

I bet if you had someone experianced near you, they'd be able to watch what's going on and tell you what is wrong.

 

[coopermania]

I do now, LOL. Thanks.