Help - Herter's Model XK3 .308 Bolt Won't Close with Cartridge In

[Derwood]

I am seeking some Team MDS help before surrendering and going to a gunsmith...

I've got a beautiful rifle that I'm trying to get up and running. It's a Herter's Model XK3, which is a Mauser type rifle made for Herter's stores in the mid-20th century. I can't decide if it was made by BSA in England or in West Germany. Either way, I would love to be able to shoot it! It says "Herter's Model XK3" and "Waseca, MN" and "308" on the barrel. It has a Bushnell scope and a checkered stock walnut.

PROBLEM:
I am able to close the bolt fine when there is no round in the chamber. But when I put a round in the magazine, it gets hung up making its way up the ramp. When I put a round directly into the chamber/barrel, the bolt won't close down all the way. I've tried two types of Hornady Ammo: Black and Match, both 168 grains.

ATTEMPTS:
This gun sat in a safe for 10-20 years and has some rust building up on the outside of the barrel where it was resting against the sides of the safe. I thought rust or other buildup in the chamber could be a problem, so I spent the past 2 days treating it with Ballistol CLP, running a 12 ga brass bore brush with a drill in the chamber, and running a 30 cal brass brush through the barrel, followed by normal cleaning with patches and rags. I completed disassembled the bolt, put it in boiling water to get rid of any grease, and then lightly oiled it and reassembled. I still can't get the bolt to close.

What am I doing wrong? What should I try? (pictures coming in next post). Thanks!

 

[Derwood]

 

[Biggfoot44]

XK3 was German made Commercial M98 Mauser , supposedly with slightly changed bolt stop for Herter's contract .

( J9 = BSA Monarch , U9 = Zavasta mfg Commercial M98 Mauser , think Mark X . Various other Herter's rifles were Husqvarna. )

The exact specific hang up would be guessing, but the category is " Your Controlled Round Feeding needs tweaking " . Routine thing for any 'Smith with any M98 experience.

 

[slsc98]

Given the provenance you describe, I’d make double 101% triple sure your rifle is actually chambered for present day SAAMI .308 …

 

[owldo]

Take it to a gunsmith and have him run some go/no go gauges thru it to get the proper caliber ...

 

[smdub]

Is there part of a broken shell in the chamber?

 

[Biggfoot44]

It wasn't rebuilt from a surplus rifle. It was a newly manufactured Commercial Mauser barrelled action from the 1960's , built on contract for what was then one of the USA largest importers .

In general , M98 Mauser feeding issues would involve subtle feed lip shaping, extractor adjustment, or combination.

Had this turned up before 1977 , you would have sent it back to Herter's , and they would have set it right . But it's Mauser Tuning 101 .

 

[Biggfoot44]

The Original Herter's was in decline in my day .

Before there was Midway USA , before there was Cabelas , before there was Bass Pro , and throw in at least half of Original Eddie Bauer , in the '40s , '50s, and '60s , Herter's was all of those combined and more !

Major seller and importer of quality Firearms made to their specifications. The largest single supplier of reloading equipment and supplies . Major seller of optics . Largest seller of gunsmithing tools . Major seller of custom gunshots, and tools thereof


Everything Hunting, Camping , Fishing , and outdoors. In addition to cavernous home retail location , they had phonebook sized catalogs .

 

[Doco Overboard]

Take an empty brass case, doesn't have to be 308, anything with a .473 cartridge head from the 06 family and see if it will slide under the extractor claw and remain there with some tension it while holding the bolt in hand horizontally.
If it does and a 308 case can be seated completely in the chamber and removed by hand, or with a cleaning rod the problem is with the face of the extractor claw which is a spring or the face of the claw is contacting the barrel tenon at the rear. This is for not being able to close the bolt on a correctly formed cartridge case. Or the claw is not able to snap over the rim of the cartridge with a case seated by hand which requires fitting of the claw, lower right third as facing the chamber.
Because the extractor claw is having difficulty feeding from the mag well, the cartridge break over point is not adjusted properly for the extractor groove of the case.
Could be that someone was intent on closing the bolt over a hand fed cartridge due to poor fitting and the tension of the claw is all wacked up, spring bent, extractor collar not free in its grooves, bent twisted not correct etc.

 

[Derwood]

Thanks for the quick feedback!

Bigfoot — yes it has a different bolt stop and safety mechanism. Took me quite a while and some sore fingertips to figure out how to disassemble the bolt!

This rifle came to me a few years ago from a relative and it’s been on my to-do list ever since. The previous owner had a lot of 60s-80s era pieces that were popular, trendy and available at that time (eg Santa Fe Jungle Carbine). The previous owner passed away years ago so I have no way of verifying things. I like that it’s the west German variant. Very cool.

DoCo - yes a case fits in the bolt and it holds it. The extractor works when I cycle it after it fails to chamber. So I think I need some professional assistance. I would absolutely salivate over a Herter’s catalogue. I see they’re available on eBay….that might be a fun read!

I took it to a local dealer on Friday and he suggested the deep clean approach that I just did as a first step. Since that didn’t work, I’ll call a gunsmith tomorrow. I’ll keep you guys updated…to include a photo of a dead deer next season if I can make this thing work!

 

[Derwood]

I took the rifle to a gunsmith and got some helpful information.

He took a casting and confirmed it is 308 caliber.

The headspace is on the tight side so they will ream it to get to proper headspace. He's also going to reprofile the extractor slightly.

The diagnosis fee was about $150 and the repair is about the same. Of course I was hoping the answer would be "you just need different ammo" but alas this is reality. I'm looking forward to being able to shoot it soon.

What do you guys advise I do to address the barrel rust?

The smith I took it to also has a cerakote machine/set up. So he also asked if I would be interested in cerakoting to resolve the rust problems. I'm investigating that vs. re-bluing vs. leaving it as is. I don't really like the look of cerakote and don't think it matches a classic rifle like this. I also looked into case color hardening for fun and that's way too costly to rationalize. Re-bluing sounds like it may not be a permanent solution given the rust. Above all, I want this thing to be available to shoot for many years to come...and want it to remain pretty. Thoughts?

 

[slsc98]

…. What do you guys advise I do to address the barrel rust? …

“Do The Least Harm, First”​

I‘d try simply cleaning it up with some elbow grease and time, keep a protective film of just about any product on it, take normal care of it and hunt it for at least a couple seasons before I went making any major changes.

Big 45 Frontier Metal Cleaner | Remove Rust from Gun Bluing and Clean Dirty Gun Bores Easy!

A Must for Every Gun Dealer, Gunsmith, Shooter & Collector! Since 1967 - Big 45 Frontier Metal Cleaner is a must for every Gun Owner. Scientifically Alloyed - It is one of the best improvements in Gun Cleaning of the Century. &quotIt is one of the...

www.big45metalcleaner.com

I just used it and oil to salvage a buddy’s family heirloom S&W .22 WMR revolver …

The relative he got it from had left it inside a pistol case for decades … only thing worse would’ve been leaving it in a leather holster …

He didn’t believe it was the same gun he dropped off a day earlier …

 

[Derwood]

Never heard of that product. I ordered it! Thank you for the recommendation.

 

[mpollan1]

^^Ditto^^ @slsc98

 

[Doco Overboard]

I thought I mentioned the claw needing adjusted in an earlier post.
It’s a common issue in many controlled feed actions.
As far as the head space goes, it’s a range not a measurement. Cartridge head space is an entirely different prospect.
Many gauges , are slightly different from others Forster vs Clymer is a good example.
This why you hear people use the phrase my rifle shoots cartridges not gauges.
I’m with the other poster, just oil it up and enjoy for a bit.
Maybe if it has guilt edge accuracy a refinish would be in order but beauty is in the eye of the beholder is what they say.
I’d also be wary of a refinish job being a point of conversation before you even had a chance to put the rifle through its paces.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Above all, I want this thing to be available to shoot for many years to come...and want it to remain pretty. Thoughts?

How Pretty?
How much $$ ?

Plan A - Remove bbl action from stock , remove rust spots . Apply multiple coats of Brownell T-4 cold blue . It will be minimum 75% improved . If good enough , touch up every cpl years ad needed . ( Yeah , Yeah Oxpho-Blue is 10% more durable , but T-4 gives better color , and better color blending .)

Plan B - Old School high gloss hot bluing is a dying art , and $$ to have done right .

Plan C - Do Plan A first . Reevaluate a year later , and if you feel the need , then do Plan B .

 

[Uncle Duke]

I thought I mentioned the claw needing adjusted in an earlier post.
It’s a common issue in many controlled feed actions.
As far as the head space goes, it’s a range not a measurement. Cartridge head space is an entirely different prospect.
Many gauges , are slightly different from others Forster vs Clymer is a good example.
This why you hear people use the phrase my rifle shoots cartridges not gauges.
I’m with the other poster, just oil it up and enjoy for a bit.
Maybe if it has guilt edge accuracy a refinish would be in order but beauty is in the eye of the beholder is what they say.
I’d also be wary of a refinish job being a point of conversation before you even had a chance to put the rifle through its paces.

A very good point. Hot bluing isn't exactly cheap. Last I looked, probably looking at $300 and up? Whatever it is, between that expense and the diagnosis fee/extractor work fee/headspace work fee? And with whatever else might come up, you can have some considerable money laid out rather quickly. Makes sense to ensure you really like the rifle first. It's quite possible that the funds may be better off spent elsewhere.

 

[Derwood]

I was able to shoot the rifle yesterday for the first time. It is very accurate - I am by no means an amazing marksman and was able to shoot a 2 inch group of 6 at 50 yards. This makes me want to continue working on the rifle, including getting the rust off using the Frontier wool pad. I put a total of 20 rounds of Hornady match ammo through it.

The only problem is it shoots about 8 inches high at 50 yards with the scope rings dialed all the way down. It's very possible the rifle was more or less never fired and the scope wasn't touched for 50 years. So I figured something could be seized up within the optic. I adjusted the dial all the way up and all the way down a few times in case it was hung up somewhere, but that didn't do it. I think I need to remount it with a shim or something to adjust the tilt. As you might glean from this, I don't really know what I'm doing haha. I've mounted one other scope before. What do you suggest I do next? I'm hoping this is something I can do on my own rather than taking it back to the gunsmith.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Two potential things : The scope itself , and the mounting .

Do you have another scope , known to be properly functional ? If so swap it onto your Herters , and retest . If it lets you get on target with moderate amount of adjustment , the problem is the scope .

If known good scope can't adjust to zero , the issue is the mounting system .

I looked again at the pics , and looks like " Weaver style " rings ? While swapping scopes , make sure the base(s) are properly positioned , and torqued . And then that rings are square on the base(s) , and equally torqued . Likewise the scope into the rings squared , and evenly torqued .

I can't tell much about the base(s) from the pics on phone screen . If two piece bases , sometimes the front and rear bases are different , either on purpose , or the vaguarities of manufacturing tolerance stack . If shooting high , swapping front and rear bases * might * bring scope angle sufficiently back into alignment .

But I'm spitballing here ..Post close up pics of mounts , and any brand or other information on them

 

[Derwood]

Here are some better photos. Thanks so much for your advice!