Hello can anyone help me out?

[Jay5687]

Hello was wondering if anyone has any cci 209 magnum shotshell primers or federal 209a they can sell me any amount would be appreciated just need some for my muzzleloader

 

[pre64hunter]

Hello was wondering if anyone has any cci 209 magnum shotshell primers or federal 209a they can sell me any amount would be appreciated just need some for my muzzleloader

I thought you might find this article interesting.
I was using Federal 209 primers for my 12 gauge slug reloads. When Federal changed to 209A I had big problems. My normally accurate loads went crazy and pressures spiked dramatically.
I've found magnum primers and percussion caps are not necessary and often decrease accuracy. We use regular Winchester or CCI 209 and regular percussion caps in all our muzzle loaders. We have good results and accuracy, never, not once had a misfire. Been muzzleloader hunting every season since 1994 in MD.

Improving the Thompson Center Omega

These T/C Large Rifle Variflame Primer Adapters work with any powder you choose to use. Improves your accuracy (shrinks your shot groups) over the hotter 209 primers that tend to cause those unexplained flyers.

www.muzzleloadingbullets.com

 

[lazarus]

I thought you might find this article interesting.
I was using Federal 209 primers for my 12 gauge slug reloads. When Federal changed to 209A I had big problems. My normally accurate loads went crazy and pressures spiked dramatically.
I've found magnum primers and percussion caps are not necessary and often decrease accuracy. We use regular Winchester or CCI 209 and regular percussion caps in all our muzzle loaders. We have good results and accuracy, never, not once had a misfire. Been muzzleloader hunting every season since 1994 in MD.

Improving the Thompson Center Omega

These T/C Large Rifle Variflame Primer Adapters work with any powder you choose to use. Improves your accuracy (shrinks your shot groups) over the hotter 209 primers that tend to cause those unexplained flyers.

www.muzzleloadingbullets.com

He may need them. If using Blackhorn 209, it really does need a CCI magnum or Fed 209a primer to set it off. I've experimented with both. Not a ton mind you, expensive to test (these days, like a buck a shot, based on the cost of the last components I bought, it was around 50 cents a shot), but in 15 shots with regular CCI 209s that I have on hand when I was using pyrodex and 777 with a regular breach plug in my CVA wolf, to using a specific BH209 breach plug, with BH209 I had one hang fire, which I've never had on the range before. I had one hang fire in the field once discharging it at the end of the day, with a magnum primer. Of note, I also managed to drop my ML HARD (no, it was not primed at the time, but I suspect I somehow dislodged the sabot on the powder just a tiny bit so it wasn't packed as hard, only explanation I have as it wasn't damp or rainy.

Anyway, on the range, in 15 shots, I had one hang fire using a regular 209 primer. Accuracy (tossing the hang fire as it was a solid 3 second hang time and the best I can say about the shot is it went into the berm) was horrid. About 3-4" groups at 50yds and a couple of the shots there was a perceptible lag between hammer drop and firing (tiny fractions of a second, not flintlock kind of delay, but it was long enough to be noticeable, 100ms? 50?). With CCI Mags and Fed 209a, my CVA wolf will print 1.2" 100yd groups with the same 300gr .429" XTPs and 110gr of BH209. I haven't put that many shots down range in my CVA wolf with BH209 in total, maybe 60 shots from the bench over 5 years of using it (2 years of 777 and 1 years of pyrodex before that). The last 3 seasons I shot 3 rounds to confirm zero 3 years ago. Last year I put 2 down range to confirm zero. This season I put one down range. Most if it was the first season I switched to BH209 and I was testing bullets and loads. Then 4 years ago I switched from 240gr .429 XTP to 300gr and that took a number of shots. That was the same time I tested regular primers against magnum.

Anyway, no hang fires in those 50 shots with magnum primers on the bench and it has always shot very tight with the exception of a couple of pulled shots. In the field, one hang fire that I think was from dropping my ML off the trunk of my car, 4-5 feet to the ground. Stupid me laid it on top of my trunk after unpriming, it when tired getting lunch. I then popped my trunk and opened it up not paying attention to a thing and basically threw my ML off the trunk on to the ground. Fortunately landing on the side of the ML, not down on the scope. It did hold zero, surprisingly.

 

[Viper21773]

May want to let folks know where you're located

 

[85MikeTPI]

May want to let folks know where you're located

 

[antco]

May want to let folks know where you're located

Dundalk, per two thread titles.

 

[pre64hunter]

He may need them. If using Blackhorn 209, it really does need a CCI magnum or Fed 209a primer to set it off. I've experimented with both. Not a ton mind you, expensive to test (these days, like a buck a shot, based on the cost of the last components I bought, it was around 50 cents a shot), but in 15 shots with regular CCI 209s that I have on hand when I was using pyrodex and 777 with a regular breach plug in my CVA wolf, to using a specific BH209 breach plug, with BH209 I had one hang fire, which I've never had on the range before. I had one hang fire in the field once discharging it at the end of the day, with a magnum primer. Of note, I also managed to drop my ML HARD (no, it was not primed at the time, but I suspect I somehow dislodged the sabot on the powder just a tiny bit so it wasn't packed as hard, only explanation I have as it wasn't damp or rainy.

Anyway, on the range, in 15 shots, I had one hang fire using a regular 209 primer. Accuracy (tossing the hang fire as it was a solid 3 second hang time and the best I can say about the shot is it went into the berm) was horrid. About 3-4" groups at 50yds and a couple of the shots there was a perceptible lag between hammer drop and firing (tiny fractions of a second, not flintlock kind of delay, but it was long enough to be noticeable, 100ms? 50?). With CCI Mags and Fed 209a, my CVA wolf will print 1.2" 100yd groups with the same 300gr .429" XTPs and 110gr of BH209. I haven't put that many shots down range in my CVA wolf with BH209 in total, maybe 60 shots from the bench over 5 years of using it (2 years of 777 and 1 years of pyrodex before that). The last 3 seasons I shot 3 rounds to confirm zero 3 years ago. Last year I put 2 down range to confirm zero. This season I put one down range. Most if it was the first season I switched to BH209 and I was testing bullets and loads. Then 4 years ago I switched from 240gr .429 XTP to 300gr and that took a number of shots. That was the same time I tested regular primers against magnum.

Anyway, no hang fires in those 50 shots with magnum primers on the bench and it has always shot very tight with the exception of a couple of pulled shots. In the field, one hang fire that I think was from dropping my ML off the trunk of my car, 4-5 feet to the ground. Stupid me laid it on top of my trunk after unpriming, it when tired getting lunch. I then popped my trunk and opened it up not paying attention to a thing and basically threw my ML off the trunk on to the ground. Fortunately landing on the side of the ML, not down on the scope. It did hold zero, surprisingly.

Yeah, I'm shooting black powder and was using Pyrodex for a while. I was going to switch to Blackhorn but it's too expensive. I've been reading about Blackhorn being hard to ignite so you're probably right. You're absolutely right about the cost, $1+ for bullets, each. I've tried a few different bullets that didn't work out, gets expensive and time consuming. Muzzleloaders are a hobby in itself. Everybody has different procedures and favorite load combinations.
I ordered a couple new breech plugs for my Omega and I'm going to convert them to use 22 Hornet small rifle primers. I'm shooting Powerbelts and do get the occasional flier they talk about in the article.

 

[lazarus]

Yeah, I'm shooting black powder and was using Pyrodex for a while. I was going to switch to Blackhorn but it's too expensive. I've been reading about Blackhorn being hard to ignite so you're probably right. You're absolutely right about the cost, $1+ for bullets, each. I've tried a few different bullets that didn't work out, gets expensive and time consuming. Muzzleloaders are a hobby in itself. Everybody has different procedures and favorite load combinations.
I ordered a couple new breech plugs for my Omega and I'm going to convert them to use 22 Hornet small rifle primers. I'm shooting Powerbelts and do get the occasional flier they talk about in the article.

Generally, with anything not BH209, the issue is that the combustion propagation is not actually fast enough on the initial light off. So what happens is you have a very strong primer (CCI magnum or fed 209a) and this causes the powder stack to basically dislodge as it is starting to light off because of that initial shock from the strong primer. So, combustion is not as even. That is why there are muzzleloader specific 209 primers, especially for 777. You don't need to use those for pyro or blackpowder (777 is especially susceptible to the combustion issue).

Blackhorn 209 is harder to ignite, but it also wants that strong hot spark, and it will very rapidly combust without dislodging. Some of it is if you look at the granules of BH209 it is an extruded powder. So basically, once ignited the hot gas can rapidly spread through the entire powder column initiating combustion through the entire thing, and you don't have the dislodgement issue. Pyro, BP and 777 don't have that. So, you have more burning from the bottom up. So, for that to be more even, you don't want the primer to shock the powder column as much. Large scores to hundreds of microseconds difference, but it can make a difference.

But yeah, figuring things out and dialing it is can be annoying, painful, and expensive. Nothing like 50 or 60 rounds down a front stuffer loaded hot to keep your orthopedist, and dentist if you aren't careful, gainfully employed. It was a lot worse when my CVA Wolf was irons only. ~6.5lbs with basically 2600-3000ft-lbs of energy, AND BP/BP substitutes are less efficient than smokeless, so they generate more recoil the same projectile energy. Form a bench. Even with a 1-4x32 on there now, I always have to remind myself, make sure your jaw is CLOSED before you pull that trigger or you'll be clacking your teeth together, man! Bit my cheek once, that sucked.

First deer ever was taken with a 240gr XTP .451" and sabots on top of 100gr of pyro. Worked great, but when I mathed it, I realized those things drop like a rock, and even though the performance was good, a good chance a shoulder hit at close range would just blow up the bullet. So I switched to 240gr XTP .429" in sabots as their BC was much higher and a much stronger bullet. A first on top of pyro, then 777. I took two deer with those. A spine hit that did well, but it wasn't like it was going through much. Then I switched to BH209 and the same bullets and the next one was a heart hit, where as near as I can tell, the bullet didn't expand, or something funky happened as there was minimal damage, and the exit hole was about bullet diameter. It didn't appear nearly as large as I would have expected if it expanded. I've yet to shoot any deer with the 300s. But they are trucking with a lot more energy and Hornady claims I am within the expansion range of them. The 240s were trucking at around 2100fps on top of 105gr of BH29 from my CVA wolf. The 300s are about 1900 on top of 110gr of BH209. So the 240s the MV was a solid 200+fps above the maximum velocity and the 300s are right at it. They slow pretty fast, so the 300s should be very comfortably within the expansion velocity at any distance other than the muzzle touching the deer (I measured at 15 feet with the screen of my chrono covered). The 240s, IIRC, don't drop to the under 1800fps that they want until something like 75-90yds. And I didn't really want to send them slower, as 105gr was a lot more accurate than a lesser powder charge.

Also my experiences were Pyro was okay, but once I had year old powder, the groupings sucked. I went from a 2.5 inch gun at 100 with those .451, to a 3 inch gun and I'd get the occasional flier 3-4 inches from the center. 777 was the exact same way, fine the first season, but when I tested from a bench the next season, it was 2 inches with 777 and 240gr .429s, the next season there were a lot of fliers opening that up to 4+ inches. I opened a new can, and back to shooting fine. So, I vowed the next season to switch to BH209 because it is not hydrophilic. And I've been shooting the same can for 4 years. It is almost empty, but POI has never shifted more than half an inch at 50 (that is generally where I confirm my zero each season), and with the 240s it was running about 2 inch groups at 100, and with 300s it is running under 1.5 inches. Other than not knowing how they kill deer (pretty confident there), I seem to have found a combo my CVA wolf loves, so I am not changing it up.