HB0131 Confiscation possibilities

[LeadSled1]

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2013RS/bills/hb/hb0131f.pdf

A person may not store or leave a loaded OR UNLOADED firearm in a location where the person knew or should have known that an unsupervised child OR A PERSON WHO IS PROHIBITED BY LAW FROM PURCHASING OR POSSESSING A FIREARM COULD gain access to the firearm.
(d) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to:
(1) SEIZURE OF THE FIREARM; AND
(2) IMPRISONMENT NOT EXCEEDING 2 YEARS OR a fine not exceeding $1,000 OR BOTH.

Common occurrences of this that are now criminal:

Gun racks at skeet/trap ranges
Self defense at home (under this children under 18 cannot have the safe code/key)
Gun range (how do you lock up your firearm at the bench when going to check the target)
ETC.

The big key is COULD GAIN ACCESS and is very open.

 

[Robert]

This section does not apply if:
(1) the child’s access to a firearm is supervised by an individual at 4 least 18 years old;
(2) the child’s access to a firearm was obtained as a result of an 6 unlawful entry;

I'm thinking that covers it..

 

[LCPIWB]

I think the point he is trying to make.
The penality was formerly just a misdemeaner and a fine.
Now the punishment includes confiscation, and up to two years jail time, which would make you ineligiable to own a firearm. Definately one to call your reps about to have this buried.

 

[2AHokie]

There are some definitions at the top, like children who have taken a certain hunting class are not counted as unsupervised children for the purposes of this law. Anyone older than 16 is also not a child.

Nonetheless, I have been convinced to oppose this one.

 

[Defender]

I'll put on my flame retardant for this one, but I certainly don't mind severe penalties for anyone who leaves a firearm where a child can access and use it. It's how that is defined and enforced that gets sticky. If a kid finds your gun in the drawer and shoots his friend while playing, you deserve to explain yourself to a judge, but I certainly don't want someone inspecting my gun safe to ensure its up to their standards or telling someone with no kids and no visitors in the house how their weapons should be stored.

 

[Catch-This-22]

This is very subjective. By this same definition a gun store/ pawn shop is a place where a "person who is prohibited COULD gain access to the/a firearm"

I also don't disagree with underlining message (as I perceive it). I believe the goal is to hold gun owners responsible for where they leave and store their firearms. I do not have children so I can leave my pistol at my bedside loaded and chambered. I would not do this if I had children and don't believe many other would. I believe this is reasonable.

However, if someone broke into my house and stole my firearm I should not be held responsible for their illegal actions. I believe this is reasonable too.

Perhaps my fault is that I try and find reason in people who never seek it to begin with... I guess I'm an optimist.

 

[Catch-This-22]

I'll put on my flame retardant for this one, but I certainly don't mind severe penalties for anyone who leaves a firearm where a child can access and use it. It's how that is defined and enforced that gets sticky. If a kid finds your gun in the drawer and shoots his friend while playing, you deserve to explain yourself to a judge, but I certainly don't want someone inspecting my gun safe to ensure its up to their standards or telling someone with no kids and no visitors in the house how their weapons should be stored.

+1. More succinct than my reply.

 

[RLBosley]

So if I leave my handgun at home with my wife, who is 19, I immediately become open to confiscation and imprisonment?

...wait they're serious?
... really?
dumb...

 

[LeadSled1]

The key is COULD access. You are at the trap range and you put your gun in the rack where it belongs. A unsupervised child COULD gain access to it even if you are standing close by. Even though a child does not access it, nor even tries, you are guilty. Give us your gun.

The part of unlawful entry by a child or prohibited person is if they GET access to the firearm. There is still the part of COULD gain access, even if a prohibited person or child DOES NOT try.


There is a big difference between where a child CAN access a firearm or COULD access a firearm.

 

[LeadSled1]

Like RLBosley asks, his wife is prohibited from possessing or purchasing a pistol as she is 19. If she COULD gain access to it in any way possible, he is now a criminal and his gun forfeit. He also can no longer be a gun owner and must forfeit his other firearms.

 

[wesser1]

How about if you live alone, or with a wife (whatever, no kids). So you don't keep it in a safe. You have a party and some people come over (all adults). You have to ask each one of them if they're legally allowed to possess a gun and then deny them entry to your home if they aren't? What if they lie? This seems extremely vague. I agree that keeping guns away from children is important, but that other part is crap.

 

[RLBosley]

Like RLBosley asks, his wife is prohibited from possessing or purchasing a pistol as she is 19. If she COULD gain access to it in any way possible, he is now a criminal and his gun forfeit. He also can no longer be a gun owner and must forfeit his other firearms.

Yeah that's my understanding too.... wow... And this is the country I signed up to protect?

How about if you live alone, or with a wife (whatever, no kids). So you don't keep it in a safe. You have a party and some people come over (all adults). You have to ask each one of them if they're legally allowed to possess a gun and then deny them entry to your home if they aren't? What if they lie? This seems extremely vague. I agree that keeping guns away from children is important, but that other part is crap.

Yep. This could easily restrict who can "legally" assemble in a home or gun range...

Would this bill affect gun shows too? (Every time I try to bring up the pdf my computer freaks out)

 

[Defender]

How about if you live alone, or with a wife (whatever, no kids). So you don't keep it in a safe. You have a party and some people come over (all adults). You have to ask each one of them if they're legally allowed to possess a gun and then deny them entry to your home if they aren't? What if they lie? This seems extremely vague. I agree that keeping guns away from children is important, but that other part is crap.

I think if I had people in my house that I didnt know well enough to answer that question, I would probably secure my firearms anyhow. This, like many laws, would only be enforceable if the worst happens.

 

[LeadSled1]

Doesn't matter if they are legally allowed to or not at the party. A person prohibited COULD gain access to it.


Gun shows, gun ranges, all open to this bill.

 

[corbex]

No more bringing kids to the gun store..

 

[RLBosley]

Thinking about it, if this bill and the AWB (Sb 0281) passes and both become law my wife (and I depending on their definition of possess) would be basically defenseless even in our own home:

This bill would prevent her from having our handgun, the the AWB would prevent her from having ANY ammunition for the mossberg pump.

A PERSON MAY NOT POSSESS AMMUNITION IF THE PERSON IS PROHIBITED FROM POSSESSING A REGULATED FIREARM UNDER § 5–133 OF THIS SUBTITLE.

Make those calls and send those emails! This is the definition of infringement... and stupid

 

[LeadSled1]

I'm thinking that covers it..

That only covers a CHILD'S unlawful access.

A prohibited person IS NOT COVERED under the unlawful access section. If someone over 16 breaks into your house and gets your firearms, even if they are locked up, you are subject to jail/fine. If the firearm is ever recovered it is now state property (Seized), and you may be forfeit of your rights to gun ownership in Maryland, thus your other firearms are now seized.

Even if a person never breaks in to your dwelling, but your firearms are deemed stored in a place where a person breaking in could gain access, your firearm is now seized etc.

 

[Robert]

That only covers a CHILD'S unlawful access.

A prohibited person IS NOT COVERED under the unlawful access section. If someone over 16 breaks into your house and gets your firearms, even if they are locked up, you are subject to jail/fine. If the firearm is ever recovered it is now state property (Seized), and you may be forfeit of your rights to gun ownership in Maryland, thus your other firearms are now seized.

Even if a person never breaks in to your dwelling, but your firearms are deemed stored in a place where a person breaking in could gain access, your firearm is now seized etc.

I understood that, a child being under the age of 16.

However I did not (and still don't) get the part in red. So your interpretation: If someone breaks into my house, jack hammers my 400lb safe out of my house, cuts the safe open, and retrieves the firearms I'm going to go to jail? I just don't see that in the text, but then again I'm not a lawyer.

 

[LeadSled1]

Did they gain access to your firearm?

 

[notme0255]

I'm hearing "confiscation" too much lately!