Hate that this crap even exists...

[mawkie]

Found this listing on Evil Pay while searching for a Luger holster. Just makes steam come out of my ears. If you search using "waffenamt stamp" this Polish seller's stuff all comes up and it's vast. Even Finn collectors need to be wary. Hey, take the $200 91/30 and turn it into a $350 Finn 91/30, all with a $60 stamp.
Ditto for that $100 unmarked holster. Fabricating history and profit all at once.

 

[Neot]

Ugh makes you sick seeing stuff like this.

 

[Doctor_M]

I'm not one for banning "things", but the only reason these exist is if you intend to defraud. Should be illegal.

 

[HappyCamper]

I would hope someone using one of these then selling it off could be charged under some sort of forgery laws? Might be hard to catch someone doing it once or twice, but if someone continuously puts out 'rarer' items on the market, I would definitely verify source and get some high res pics of all markings. Even then it might be tough if the rifle has similar wear patterns and the stamps are all legit for the history and serial number range of the piece. In the end though, if it passes those tests, how would it ever be found out to be a fake?

 

[Alphabrew]

Ordered, thanks!!

Just kidding, yeah that sucks. Def will be used to defraud.

 

[travistheone]

capitalism baby!

 

[mawkie]

Case in point. There's a pile of uber rare German capture arms coming to auction soon. Stuff the likes of which I've never seen before. But in the back of my mind is the thought that the German capture Lebel rifle being sold could be a clever fabrication with a simple $60 stamp. Something that you'd have to inspect in person and even then might not be able to 100% verify as the fakers get better and better at their craft. Makes a mockery of all the legitimate examples out there.
I still sting a bit from a $500 lesson I got on a fantasy faked Lebel rifle a few years ago. It was good enough to fool two of the best French collectors in the USA along with your's truly. We all thought it was genuine and I "won" in the end. Thank God it didn't cost me more and in the end I do have a nice shooter that I can abuse without apprehension.

 

[somd_mustangs]

Where there's money to be made, asshattery will abound.
That guy (and others) have been around for a while but looks like the inventory and quality is expanding (those look like holster dies, see some for Femaru & some rare P.38)

One clue is if the stamp looks crisp, perfectly & evenly struck, or too deeply struck, better look closer.
Many of the fake stamps aren't quite right either.
The lazy bones fakers will also put them in the wrong place, or use the wrong WaA for the application.
The good "restorers" and "boosters" know better though.

A few years ago a whole passel of the original WaA135 dies were found in the sewer near the old Mauser plant.
One of those would be neat to have and are pretty much not usable.

 

[Straightbolt]

DGR - Dean's Gun Restorations M1 stocks will stamp your stocks with authentic "looking" original stamps on request.

So will these guys http://www.trfindley.com/pgsnstmpsm1.html

 

[noahhh]

I have an excellent condition No.1MkIII* Enfield with Nazi acceptance marks all over it. I figure it "went into the bag" somewhere in France or Dunkirk during the Spring of 1940. I've owned it for 30+ years, and don't recall spurious stamps being around back then but now y'all got me wondering...

 

[HappyCamper]

Case in point. There's a pile of uber rare German capture arms coming to auction soon. Stuff the likes of which I've never seen before. But in the back of my mind is the thought that the German capture Lebel rifle being sold could be a clever fabrication with a simple $60 stamp. Something that you'd have to inspect in person and even then might not be able to 100% verify as the fakers get better and better at their craft. Makes a mockery of all the legitimate examples out there.
I still sting a bit from a $500 lesson I got on a fantasy faked Lebel rifle a few years ago. It was good enough to fool two of the best French collectors in the USA along with your's truly. We all thought it was genuine and I "won" in the end. Thank God it didn't cost me more and in the end I do have a nice shooter that I can abuse without apprehension.

That sucks, at least you didn't put out ridiculous cash. So how did you know it was fake? I've got a few rifles in my collection I think I might give an extra hard look to now considering they are deemed pretty 'rare'. Beyond placement on rifle, sharpness and wear matching, design of stamp, period and serial number how else can you be sure?

 

[Docster]

capitalism baby!

Notice really. I think fraud is contrary to the rule of law.


Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights. Politically, it is the system of laissez-faire (freedom). Legally it is a system of objective laws (rule of law as opposed to rule of man). Economically, when such freedom is applied to the sphere of production its result is the free-market.[/I]

 

[travistheone]

Notice really. I think fraud is contrary to the rule of law.


Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights. Politically, it is the system of laissez-faire (freedom). Legally it is a system of objective laws (rule of law as opposed to rule of man). Economically, when such freedom is applied to the sphere of production its result is the free-market.[/I]

but modifying the appearance of something you own is perfectly legal. can't legislate the object out of existence, nor the intent.

 

[Dave91]

I have an excellent condition No.1MkIII* Enfield with Nazi acceptance marks all over it. I figure it "went into the bag" somewhere in France or Dunkirk during the Spring of 1940. I've owned it for 30+ years, and don't recall spurious stamps being around back then but now y'all got me wondering...

I would love to see pictures of that one.

 

[mawkie]

That sucks, at least you didn't put out ridiculous cash. So how did you know it was fake? I've got a few rifles in my collection I think I might give an extra hard look to now considering they are deemed pretty 'rare'. Beyond placement on rifle, sharpness and wear matching, design of stamp, period and serial number how else can you be sure?

It was an unusual configuration but sported marks that had the correct size and font. Assumption at the time was a prototype. But when it arrived I noticed that the end of the wood stock didn't have patina, too fresh. And the machining on the front sight assembly, while good, was not to French arsenal quality. But it very easily passed a "5 ft" test.
It can be very difficult to spot a fake like a German capture Lebel 1886 R35 as the only ID is a small German mark on the stock. But that's worth probably a $500 difference in value, esp to an advanced collector.
It can be argued that it's your property and you can do what you wish to it. Agreed. But stuff like firearms have a tendency to outlast their current owner and it will eventually pass onto someone else. At that time will the new owner be aware that the marks are genuine or fake? Probably not. That's where we enter murky territory. Say the family of a deceased collector sells the item as original. That's fraud and you can be taken to civil court for sure and perhaps criminal court (I'll leave that to our MDS members of the legal persuasion). Bad juju.

 

[Boss]

Knowing these stamps exist I would be questionable of a really clean stamping. Most of the old firearms I have seen have a weathered stamping that shows age.

 

[lee2]

i consider most nazi stuff fake unless from a a reputable dealer, even they can be fooled. consider all SS material fakes.

 

[Cadet08]

This stuff has existed in the historic reenacting community for decades. http://www.lodgewood.com/Defarbing-sheet_c_94.html John Zimmerman can take a repro 1861 musket and make it look 100% authentic, including inspectors marks, contractor lockplates ect. http://harpersferrycivilwarguns.com/services some of his stuff is amazing. S and S firearms do similar work. Google "Defarbing"

 

[Machodoc]

I would hope someone using one of these then selling it off could be charged under some sort of forgery laws?

Maybe not forgery, but I'd surely think it would be fraud if it was not represented as a reproduction. Maybe one of the attorneys here will fill us in?

On another note, this is good incentive to collect more things that are so off the beaten path of collectors at the moment, that nobody would bother faking them.

 

[Blacksmith101]

It is not just firearms. I know the man who had forged a replica colonial style kitchen fork for a collector. After the collectors death the fork showed up in the auction catalog of the mans estate listed as an original. The man who made it contacted the auction company and they refused to believe him and sold it as an original for thousands of dollars.