Grandfathering for Bump Stocks or Binary Triggers

[esqappellate]

As I said above, its not yet codified in COMAR. MSP and the COMAR approval committee may write entirely different text.

No, they really can't write entirely different text. The regs, if any issue at all (and none are contemplated by this statute), have to comply with the statute. Lots of case law on that.

 

[esqappellate]

Yeah, litigating over prong 2 might help those that fail to "apply" before October 1, 2018. One could make the argument that there simply is no application process established by the ATF for a Rapid Fire Trigger Activator that a Maryland resident could possibly follow. Therefore, that prong of the test should be stricken.

My advice, those of you with these Rapid Fire Trigger Activators ("RFTA") send a letter/e-mail to the ATF asking for approval of the RFTA. That way, you can also argue that you did apply for approval. Might make it so the Assistant State's Attorney decides not to make your case a test case for prong 2 of the grandfathering requirements. MSI might need a test case at some point though. Only question is whether you want to be the test subject.

This is really good advice.

 

[danb]

We'll see each other soon enough, and you can explain this to me. I'm an MSI EM, and I certainly have not been encouraging anyone to vote for Hogan after this last legislative session.

As per the thread's topic, I might also be one that owns a soon to be banned device ...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

This is a lose- lose strategy for a group like MSI. If Hogan wins despite this, we have less (or no) leverage for his sscond term. If he loses, we get Kamenetz or Madaleno. NJ is pushing a statue that requires G&S for mere ownership. Expect to see that here. Either way, we are marginalizing ourselves.

I think that the hyperventilating about the red flag bill and bump atock ban is extremely misguided. As bad as they are, we did not get a magazine ban, or a ban on rifles for 18-20 yr olds, and both of these MD bills are light years better with more due process than the FL statues. CT has a similar statue and your odds of getting 1302d are less than .01%.

We did have an impact on both bills. We don’t always have a choice between winning and losing. Sometimes it’s between losing badly and or not so badly. I think we worked hard and beat back sone of the worst elements of these bills.

 

[esqappellate]

I donated through the link that's provided by a certain member each time he welcomes a new person to MDS.

It's not a join/membership link. It's a litigation fund link.

Maybe you could donate that way. Knowing your contribution would go toward funding lawsuits and not Hogan's campaign. This would allow you to fight the grabbers and maintain your principles at the same time.

Just to be clear, MSI does NOT fund or contribute to any campaign. No contribution ever goes to a candidate. Period. Full Stop. We are by charter non-partisan and we do not endorse or not endorse any political candidate. We do educate on political matters. And we sue. And we do other stuff. We can use the help.

 

[esqappellate]

This is a lose- lose strategy for a group like MSI. If Hogan wins despite this, we have less (or no) leverage for his sscond term. If he loses, we get Kamenetz or Madaleno. NJ is pushing a statue that requires G&S for mere ownership. Expect to see that here. Either way, we are marginalizing ourselves.

I think that the hyperventilating about the red flag bill and bump atock ban is extremely misguided. As bad as they are, we did not get a magazine ban, or a ban on rifles for 18-20 yr olds, and both of these MD bills are light years better with more due process than the FL statues. CT has a similar statue and your odds of getting 1302d are less than .01%.

We did have an impact on both bills. We don’t always have a choice between winning and losing. Sometimes it’s between losing badly and or not so badly. I think we worked hard and beat back sone of the worst elements of these bills.

That is absolutely correct. Did folks seen our written testimony? That's just the least of the time I spent on these bills. Lots and Lots of other time in Annapolis on these bills. Not mention loads of time on bills that *didn't* become law. Including some really bad bills like the Mag Ban, and MicroStamp bills. The written testimony on these and other bills are like mini-legal briefs that could be filed in federal court. And yes, that does have an impact, or at least, so I am told.

 

[44man]

Ok, I'll bite. I don't recall telling anyone that "we know best" much less that anyone should not think for themselves. Quite to the contrary, we don't tell anyone what to do or not to do. Everyone here knows what MSI does at the General Assembly and in federal court and elsewhere. We appreciate the help and I, as President, am wide open to suggestions. That doesn't mean we will always agree, since complete agreement among all members is not possible, but I always listen respectfully. I prize civility. Indeed, members can run for MSI offices if they want to change the direction of the organization. So, I am completely mystified by these remarks.

It was not you.

I see and know what msi does.

But I caught several rashes of shyte from other msi folks and was told me, my principles, and my anti hogan and getting rid of traitor republicans and my money were not wanted by msi.

Seemed pretty clear to me and gave me a case of butthurt about it

But again it was not you

 

[Doctor_M]

This is very interesting! Would you be willing to share a unredacted copy of the email with me? If so, please send it to my MSI email address: mpennak@marylandshallissue.org. Thanks!!

I'm not the OP, but I just forwarded a response I received on the subject.

Will also be sending another donation to MSI.

 

[esqappellate]

It was not you.

I see and know what msi does.

But I caught several rashes of shyte from other msi folks and was told me, my principles, and my anti hogan and getting rid of traitor republicans and my money were not wanted by msi.

Seemed pretty clear to me and gave me a case of butthurt about it

But again it was not you

Well, I am glad to have that clarified, thank you. BTW, I don't and can't tell folks (including other MSI members) what to say or what to think. So I can't speak to what others may have said to you. But, as President, I *do* speak for MSI. So, if it didn't come from me, it didn't come from "MSI." Again, I am happy to hear from any and all members and members know how to get in touch with me and others at MSI: info@marylandshallissue.org

 

[esqappellate]

I'm not the OP, but I just forwarded a response I received on the subject.

Will also be sending another donation to MSI.

Thank you!!

 

[sxs]

Signed back up for MSI membership.

 

[esqappellate]

Signed back up for MSI membership.

Thank you!

 

[44man]

Well, I am glad to have that clarified, thank you. BTW, I don't and can't tell folks (including other MSI members) what to say or what to think. So I can't speak to what others may have said to you. But, as President, I *do* speak for MSI. So, if it didn't come from me, it didn't come from "MSI." Again, I am happy to hear from any and all members and members know how to get in touch with me and others at MSI: info@marylandshallissue.org

If I was so inclined to renew and give for litigation I would need to know msi’s official stance on hogan and the traitor republicans reelections

 

[Squaregrouper]

Just to be clear, MSI does NOT fund or contribute to any campaign. No contribution ever goes to a candidate. Period. Full Stop. We are by charter non-partisan and we do not endorse or not endorse any political candidate. We do educate on political matters. And we sue. And we do other stuff. We can use the help.

If I was so inclined to renew and give for litigation I would need to know msi’s official stance on hogan and the traitor republicans reelections

Succinct.

 

[esqappellate]

If I was so inclined to renew and give for litigation I would need to know msi’s official stance on hogan and the traitor republicans reelections

We don't have (and won't have) an "official stance" on that, as doing so goes beyond our charter. Folks need to make up their own minds on that subject. We offer information and perspectives. I can and have on occasion opined on what makes my job in Annapolis easier or harder. But, what you (and others) do with that information is entirely up to you.

 

[Squaregrouper]

My MSI membership was just paid.
I'm not voting for Hogan; Quinn or bust.

 

[44man]

Succinct.

You are correct, I will rephrase

If one was to ask msi to educate them on the upcoming elections with reguards to the re-election of republican candidates that voted as anti gun what would the synopsis of said eduction.

I am jusf funny about who I give my money to, especially after this session

 

[esqappellate]

My MSI membership was just paid.
I'm not voting for Hogan; Quinn or bust.

Thank you for your membership!

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Knowing that the overwhelming majority of MDS members won't be entering this thread, would it be beneficial to have an MSI Litigation Fund thread and sticky?

If it looks too much like begging, I believe begging would be entirely acceptable right now.

And knowing that folks who don't give benefit from folks who do give, a little public shaming couldn't hurt either.

 

[esqappellate]

You are correct, I will rephrase

If one was to ask msi to educate them on the upcoming elections with reguards to the re-election of republican candidates that voted as anti gun what would the synopsis of said eduction.

I am jusf funny about who I give my money to, especially after this session

If you get our emails (members and subscribers), you would know that we have reported on what happened and who voted for what in Committee and on the Floor. There is an upcoming Legislative Recap email that will be sent out when I finish it. It's a lot of work. So the information and education you get from MSI is what happened and what positions MSI have taken on X legislation or other matters. You have access to our written testimony. It is on our website. That gives you a *lot* of information that, ideally, would allow folks to make an educated decision on who to vote for or against. I think, personally, that information is really valuable and worthy of support by folks. Heck, the lawsuits alone are potentially priceless in terms of creating value for our members. Believe me, none of us in MSI are paid a dime for our time and efforts.

 

[esqappellate]

Knowing that the overwhelming majority of MDS members won't be entering this thread, would it be beneficial to have an MSI Litigation Fund thread and sticky?

If it looks too much like begging, I believe begging would be entirely acceptable right now.

And knowing that folks who don't give benefit from folks who do give, a little public shaming couldn't hurt either.

Well, heck, I am happy to beg for help. I'm too old to be proud. It is one thing to be a keyboard commando. It quite another to put a few dollars and/or volunteer time in support. The "Walk the Talk" test is still operative.