Glass vs Power; Where do I Put My Money?

[Mark75H]

Glass quality over magnification

 

[outrider58]

Glass quality over magnification

No question.

 

[davsco]

everyone has some sort of budget. one way to stretch that is buy used, look on snipershide, lots of folks are always upgrading. i've sold some nice glass and also bought nice glass there with good results.

two lines with very nice glass (and turrets etc) are nightforce nxs and vortex razor hd at reasonably affordable pricing.

if you want to check out a bunch of glass, find and hit a precision rifle match, most everyone will let you get behind their scope, at least at the end of a match.

 

[calicojack]

I was only going to spend like $600 or less, but I will consider upping the ante if there is good reason.

My current favorite scope that I have used they don't make any mode; Nikon Monarch 4-16X (I also have a Monarch 3-12X and a Monarch 2.5-10X).

I am looking for is something in the 4-16X range to replace the 3-12X Monarch. And the 3-12X Monarch is going to replace a 3-9X Nikon Prostaff.

The new scope is going on a 7mm-08 bolt action Bergara B14 Ridge.

 

[AlBeight]

Actually, there are some testable values in th world of optics. And I do my comparison shopping at matches or in the lockers of my friends. They do the same with my locker. I have multiple Razor two vortex scopes, a kahles, a zeiss, and couple burris xtr2 variants. When I bought the kahles, it was after trying two out that belonged to friends. My first razor was based on playing with one that belonged to a guy in my squad at a match.

You should hang out at a couple of precision rifle matches. It will offer you the "gun counter" of top shelf optics to check out.

I’ve done all that.....I have 3 Vortex Razors, several PST’s, 2 Nightforce NX-8’s, a nice Burris XTR2, love them all. The Razor2’s are definitely sharper than my Viper PST’s, but I doubt my eyes would tell you they’re $1,500 better. Same thing with my Razors vs the Schmidt and Bender I was able to get behind at Peacemaker long range challenge. It was definitely better (sharper) than my $2,500 Razor looking at the same 750-850 yard targets at that station, but I can’t say it was $3,000 better.

Better glass is definitely better glass, and given a choice I’d also take better optical quality over more magnification. Without looking thru the glass myself in an apples to apples comparison I’m not sure how someone that hasn’t can make this choice when shopping for a scope. I think to tell someone to simply get better glass is doing him a disservice without explaining how to do that since it’s not a data point number in the product specs. As you said, you have to do the legwork to really make strong comparisons.

In direct response to the OP, to “reach out there” more magnification might be his answer, but I’d preface that with not going to extreme crazy high numbers like bench rest 60x, but if he’s “reaching out” 1,500 yards or a mile I doubt a fixed 10x would serve him that well, great clarity or not. I can say thru experience that my Razor at 1,100 yards +/- hasn’t really been past 12x or 15x (max on mine is 20x), but my PST’s I tend to need 16x-20x (max 25x) for a ‘clearer’ image at the same range ( assuming clear and sunny day). OP should also be aware and educated on parallax as well, as that wasn’t mentioned.

 

[calicojack]

This is a killer deal on a darn good scope.
.

Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 MOA EBR-2C Riflescope PST-43127

Buy Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 EBR MOA Riflescope at Eurooptic.com. Get free shipping on this XD Lens Elements, Waterproof, Fogproof, and Shockproof Vortex Viper Rifle scope. Call 570-368-3920 for the best price on Vortex Scope. SHIPS FREE!

www.eurooptic.com

OOS.

 

[Squaregrouper]

OOS.

No it isn't.

 

[calicojack]

No it isn't.

Ahh - it says email if price reduced

[EDIT] Hmmm.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Ahh - it says email if price reduced

[EDIT] Hmmm.

That is the best dollar to quality ratio optic on the market right now.

 

[4g64loser]

I’ve done all that.....I have 3 Vortex Razors, several PST’s, 2 Nightforce NX-8’s, a nice Burris XTR2, love them all. The Razor2’s are definitely sharper than my Viper PST’s, but I doubt my eyes would tell you they’re $1,500 better. Same thing with my Razors vs the Schmidt and Bender I was able to get behind at Peacemaker long range challenge. It was definitely better (sharper) than my $2,500 Razor looking at the same 750-850 yard targets at that station, but I can’t say it was $3,000 better.

Better glass is definitely better glass, and given a choice I’d also take better optical quality over more magnification. Without looking thru the glass myself in an apples to apples comparison I’m not sure how someone that hasn’t can make this choice when shopping for a scope. I think to tell someone to simply get better glass is doing him a disservice without explaining how to do that since it’s not a data point number in the product specs. As you said, you have to do the legwork to really make strong comparisons.

In direct response to the OP, to “reach out there” more magnification might be his answer, but I’d preface that with not going to extreme crazy high numbers like bench rest 60x, but if he’s “reaching out” 1,500 yards or a mile I doubt a fixed 10x would serve him that well, great clarity or not. I can say thru experience that my Razor at 1,100 yards +/- hasn’t really been past 12x or 15x (max on mine is 20x), but my PST’s I tend to need 16x-20x (max 25x) for a ‘clearer’ image at the same range ( assuming clear and sunny day). OP should also be aware and educated on parallax as well, as that wasn’t mentioned.

I rarely have my razor twos set past 18x for steel match and, often, am somewhere in the 12-16 range. I stand by suggestion that OP attend some precision rifle matches. Davsco, who I know from the practical shooting world, has similar advice.

In reference to explaining how to "get better glass", I did that. I suggested that OP visit precision rifle matches. Nothing like seeing through five or ten top end optics on the same day at the same time. Even Euro optic can't offer that. And I endorse them as a vendor (they don't pay me, I'm a paying customer).

 

[calicojack]

That is a great friggin deal. I have it's little bro(5-25×56 venom) on my grendel and paid just a couple bucks under. It's very impressive and makes me feel like I'm cheating at 300 yds and in. View attachment 387907
View attachment 387903

Isn’t the Venom a better scope?
Nope, not even close. Never mind.

 

[AlBeight]

I rarely have my razor twos set past 18x for steel match and, often, am somewhere in the 12-16 range. I stand by suggestion that OP attend some precision rifle matches. Davsco, who I know from the practical shooting world, has similar advice.

In reference to explaining how to "get better glass", I did that. I suggested that OP visit precision rifle matches. Nothing like seeing through five or ten top end optics on the same day at the same time. Even Euro optic can't offer that. And I endorse them as a vendor (they don't pay me, I'm a paying customer).

Totally in agreement. BTW, I met Davsco at Peacemaker at my 1st trip out there, he shot very well that day. I’d take his advice on this topic all day long. Scope choice is definitely a never ending rabbit hole you can get very caught up in pretty easily.

 

[4g64loser]

Totally in agreement. BTW, I met Davsco at Peacemaker at my 1st trip out there, he shot very well that day. I’d take his advice on this topic all day long. Scope choice is definitely a never ending rabbit hole you can get very caught up in pretty easily.

I'm pretty far down that rabbit hole!

 

[Squaregrouper]

For those not "in the know", we have MDS members E. Shell and 4G64Loser posting in this thread. They are both very accomplished long-range shooters. E.Shell is an old school tried and true master, while 4G64Loser is a "youngin" with a ton of knowledge on newer technology.
I highly recommend that people seeking optics listen to what these two guys have to say.

 

[4g64loser]

E.Shell will kick my kiester all up and down the valley of the Sgt York stage (ASC reference). But I appreciate the flattery, SG. You are already getting that ppk/s barrel, so it's not really necessary!

I have spent a lot of money on optics. Some has been worth every dollar, some has been worth most of the dollars, some has been foolish and stupid. I am just trying to keep others from making the stupid mistakes I did.

I am not a camera expert, especially macro stuff, but if anyone is on here I would offer (schedule depending) to bring out a "buffet" of glass for them to photo through on color palettes and reference objects so they could post those photos here for comparative visual analysis. Anything I do would be of dubious value due to my lack of photographic talent.

 

[erwos]

In theory this is sound advice, but for someone shopping for a new optic, how can you discern “optical quality” while shopping in a catalog, or website? It’s a highly individually subjective quality. It’s not like it’s an actual score or number provided in the product specs.

You know this better than I do, but... here's my response.

Country of origin is a big clue. Japan is your friend, but is not necessarily an ultimate guarantor of quality. You should be looking at things along the lines of Razor, Tango6, Accupower/Credo, Nightforce, etc. You will sometimes find the upper lines of Crimson Trace, Primary Arms (PLx), etc. are made in Japan by JOL, and are pretty reasonable scopes at a lower cost.

(What you shouldn't do is buy some $300 scope and tell us how it's just as good as. It's not.)

 

[holesonpaper]

(What you shouldn't do is buy some $300 scope and tell us how it's just as good as. It's not.)

Lol. Love the quote.

Like everyone says, quality over magnification. On the local PRS circuit, most guys stay in the 12-18x range for 1000yards and in. There’s a difference there vs say f-class where magnification is more necessary.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Lol. Love the quote.

Like everyone says, quality over magnification. On the local PRS circuit, most guys stay in the 12-18x range for 1000yards and in. There’s a difference there vs say f-class where magnification is more necessary.

Up until 2021, the most magnification I owned was 16x. I now have a Viper PST, but at 24x magnification, I feel like I'm having a seizure when looking at a target 1000yds away. No matter how still I remain, the glass looks like I'm shivering.

 

[calicojack]

I have this on my bench rest rifle. It’s silly. A comparatively good bargain.

Nightforce BR Benchrest 12-42x56 NP-R2 C104 - Nightforceusa.com

www.nightforceusa.com

OBTW - Must be one hell of a nice rifle! Good for you!

 

[teratos]

OBTW - Must be one hell of a nice rifle! Good for you!

I love it. Trued 700 receiver barreled in .260 Remington by ER Shaw.