I have heard that there are Chinese copy .30 carbine bullets on the market with a fake LC 52 headstamp, and that this ammo is supposed to be corrosive. As far as anyone knows, is the copycat ammo limited to the "52" headstamp or are other years suspect? I picked up some LC 72 ammo on Gunbroker and am wondering if I should not use it.
Fake Lake City carbine ammo?
- Thread starter JHE1956
- Start date
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SKIP
Ultimate Member
I believe the 52 year is Chicom and corrosive. To be safe fire one round and make sure the spent cartridge a has a single flash hole. The Chicom ammo is Berdan primed with two flash holes.
paulstitz
Active Member
Do not fire the round, at least not in a carbine, closed gas system is a pain to clean. Pull the bullet and dump the powder. Then look at the primer.
That said it is only LC52.
Lou45
R.I.P.
The Chinese made LC52 IS corrosive and WILL damage the tappet valve of the M1 Carbine. Do NOT shoot it in M1 Carbines. Pull the bullet, dump powder, and look into the case to view the flash hole(s). If it has a single flash hole centered in the case, it's good to shoot, if two holes 180 degrees apart it is corrosive and DON'T shoot it. I understand the French also made some .30 carbine ammo and it's supposed to be corrosive too though I've not seen any personally.
SKIP
Ultimate Member
The difference.
Last edited:
Prob for the .30 cal M1 carbine...
Machodoc
Old Guy
Yep, Lou, they did. I have a few boxes of it that were bring-backs by an Air America pilot. I'll try to post some pics asap.
funny, really asking who made it and if it's corrosive
Machodoc
Old Guy
Yes, and the answer to that, for the time being, is to pull a bullet, dump the power, and look down into the casing to see if the primer has two side-by-side holes, or if it has one hole in the center.
Two holes = Berdan primer (corrosive)
One hole = Boxer primer (non-corrosive)
Machodoc
Old Guy
Yes--of the ammo that you are likely to find in any quantity available for sale today, anyway. It's the primer compound that's corrosive, and not the powder (unless you are shooting an ancient round with black powder).
Maybe it's more accurate to say that post-WWII boxer-primed ammo is far less corrosive than Berdan, because any powder residue left in the bore of a firearm is going to absorb some amount of moisture from the atmosphere, and that will promote corrosion faster than a properly cleaned bore.
Lots of people - even some dealers who know better - get the two mixed up. An easy way to remember the difference is: "Berdan primers are a BURDEN on your firearm."
Berdan primers are traditionally made with either potassium chlorate or sodium petrochlorate ... which, when fired, turn into the salts, potassium chloride and sodium chloride. (We know sodium chloride as table salt.) You don't want to leave salt on any metal unless you are wanting it to oxidize.
Can a Berdan-style primer be made that's non-corrosive? Yes, and some modern ones are, but you aren't all that likely to see those in the U.S. unless you are really into specialty reloading. They've only fairly recently started appearing here, in very small quantities, and are carried by only a couple of suppliers. For now, though, you can assume that virtually any Berdan-primed round that you find is going to be corrosive, or it will be clearly marked, "non-corrosive" on the box.
Berdan and Boxer are the names of the inventors of these two types of primers. (Berdan was an American, and Boxer was English.) Berdan primers are, in spite of their corrosive properties, less expensive to make and used to be slightly more reliable than Boxers. Those were good trade-offs for use in firearms that would either be shot under conditions where they could be properly cleaned afterward, or would be shot under conditions where the potential for corrosion in the bore was pretty far down the list of things that a soldier would be thinking about at the moment.
[Set History Lesson Mode to "OFF"]
paulstitz
Active Member
No, it depends on the compound.
Most U.S. mititary ammo used during WWII was corrosive except for the .30 carbine (closed gas system). 30.06 ammo was changed to non-corrosive primers in the early 1950's (not all manufactures change at once).
CMP website has a list of years and lot numbers for the change from corrosive to non-corrosive.
I doubt many of us would be colleting C&R firearms if we weren't interested in a few history lessons.
Lou45
R.I.P.
IIRC, all US military ammo was corrosive to some degree during WW2 and shortly afterwards to about early/mid 50's with one exception, .30 carbine. The reason .30 carbine ammo (US contract) was made from the onset as NON-corrosive is that the tappet valve incorporated in the M1 Carbine would be damaged from the effects of corrosive ammo, to the point of making the gun inoperable in short order.
