Eric Holder and Stand Your Ground

[lx1x]

If you are flat on your back, with someone on top, beating and banging your head on the concrete, just where would you be able to retreat to?

Call up Scotty to beam you back to the enterprise.

 

[HappyCamper]

"Gonna stand my ground, won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin' me down
Gonna stand my ground and I won't back down

Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I'll stand my ground and I won't back down

I will stand my ground
And I won't back down"


-Tom Petty

 

[K31]

-Tom Petty

Charter member of the 45 Pound Bench Press Club.

 

[Doctor_M]

Guess that would apply to the Castle Doctrine too?? I suppose that your first order of business during a home invasion should be to find the nearest window (2nd or 3rd story, notwithstanding) and jump out of it like a startled deer.

More proof that the current crop of politicians don't want citizens... they want sheeple.

 

[Doctor_M]

"Gonna stand my ground, won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin' me down
Gonna stand my ground and I won't back down

Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin' me around
But I'll stand my ground and I won't back down

I will stand my ground
And I won't back down"


-Tom Petty

Clearly a racist song.

 

[HappyCamper]

Clearly a racist song.

Fitting too that they played it at the '12 Demo Nat'l Convention

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Guess that would apply to the Castle Doctrine too?? I suppose that your first order of business during a home invasion should be to find the nearest window (2nd or 3rd story, notwithstanding) and jump out of it like a startled deer.

More proof that the current crop of politicians don't want citizens... they want sheeple.

Appropriate for a bunch of folks that have no bounds on viewing everything as "community property".

 

[pseudonym]

Read the law before you comment, it will save you some humiliation.

Let me help you brush up on your elementary grammar and save you from future humiliation. A comment is a remark expressing an opinion. Comments end with periods. A question is a sentence worded to elicit information. Questions end with question marks. I asked a question for clarification. You made a comment that was absolutely useless.

He wasn't in a violent altercation until he allegedly started it.

Florida statute 776.012 states that you can use force when a person reasonably believe there is an "imminent use of unlawful force." According to this, you don't have to already be in a violent altercation. You just have to reasonably believe that someone is about to assault you and cause you great bodily harm. As such, did TM have the justification to stand his ground? If someone was chasing you, would you stand your ground?

 

[marquis708]

What a great point! Also who in the world won't stand their ground if they are getting beat up. I guess if someone or maybe myself defended themselves with a knife instead of a firearm maybe no one would even know who cut his A55 UP!

"God Bless America as she surely needs it right now".

 

[aireyc]

Let me help you brush up on your elementary grammar and save you from future humiliation. A comment is a remark expressing an opinion. Comments end with periods. A question is a sentence worded to elicit information. Questions end with question marks. I asked a question for clarification. You made a comment that was absolutely useless.

Florida statute 776.012 states that you can use force when a person reasonably believe there is an "imminent use of unlawful force." According to this, you don't have to already be in a violent altercation. You just have to reasonably believe that someone is about to assault you and cause you great bodily harm. As such, did TM have the justification to stand his ground? If someone was chasing you, would you stand your ground?

He may have, but that doesn't matter at this point. They're not prosecuting Trayvon Martin. It's not like one person is guilty and the other isn't. It's possible TM acted within the law as did George Zimmerman. They both could have feared for their lives, thus they'd both be cleared of charges. As such I don't know why SYG should even be part of the discussion. It had nothing to do with the case.

 

[paperwork351]

Does FL SYG have a "civil immunity" provision?

 

[randian]

Does FL SYG have a "civil immunity" provision?

Yes, but that's not specifically part of SYG. It's a general self-defense provision.

 

[randian]

It's possible TM acted within the law as did George Zimmerman. They both could have feared for their lives, thus they'd both be cleared of charges.

Both? Not bloody likely. Martin escaped Zimmerman's view and was at his house. Rather than enter the safety of his house, he doubled back to confront (the most applicable word I can think of) Zimmerman. That's not what somebody in fear for their life does, that's what somebody looking to get even does.

 

[b00sh]

Florida statute 776.012 states that you can use force when a person reasonably believe there is an "imminent use of unlawful force." According to this, you don't have to already be in a violent altercation. You just have to reasonably believe that someone is about to assault you and cause you great bodily harm. As such, did TM have the justification to stand his ground? If someone was chasing you, would you stand your ground?

If I was within jogging distance to my house, I would go home and lock the doors. I'm not going to jump on someone who's following me, I'm going to leave. I would not resort to violence unless absolutely necessary.

 

[EL1227]

Compare and contrast ...

Reuters.com -
Florida lawmakers urge overhaul of 'Stand Your Ground' law

Considering that the two cases of note ended differently. Zimmerman was acquitted, purely on self-defense, NOT SYG; while Marissa Alexander got 20 years for claiming SYG when she fired a "warning shot". But, listening to the Governor, SYG in FL isn't going anywhere soon.​

Republican Governor Rick Scott said he met with leaders of the sit-in demonstration for the first time on Thursday night, but he indicated he had no plans to call a special session.

Meanwhile back in the heart of partisan politics ...

Politico.com -
Dick Durbin to hold hearing on ‘stand your ground’ laws

The Senate’s No. 2 Democrat, Dick Durbin of Illinois {emphasizing #2}, will concetrate his attacks on the NRA and American Legislative Exchange Council which helps draft conservative legislation in statehouses in the crafting of the “stand your ground” laws. Durbin need not look any further that Chicago in his home state to see that laws allowing SYG work much better than strict gun control.

Durbin also plans to examine gut the legal definition of self defense, how the laws have affected shooting confrontations and how the laws interact with racial profiling by law enforcement race-baiters.

But in stark comparison to those two headlines, Robert Gelinas on TownHall.com takes on the anti-SYG crowd; Durbin and Congressional Democrats, Obama, Holder, pop celebrities, and especially NYC Mayor Bloomberg, with facts, figures, and excellent insight into the current kerfuffle over SYG.

TownHall.com -
Stand Your Ground, Shooters!

From Bloomberg’s perspective such laws, “…can inspire dangerous vigilantism and protect those who act recklessly with guns,” adding that they, “…encourage deadly confrontations by enabling people to shoot first and argue ‘justifiable homicide’ later.”

Got that? Apparently, the Mayor of New York City believes that the bad guy in the assault equation is the lawful gun owner.

The vocal anti-gun/anti-SYG crowd, most of whom have armed security around them day and night, that in the event of an attempted assault, the bodyguards would stop the threat by any means necessary, up to an including the use of deadly force. But, law-abiding John Q. Citizen who maybe can’t afford a personal bodyguard, but can afford a KelTec 9mm, is obligated by law to run away if assaulted. But if he doesn’t run away, and makes a split-second life-or-death decision to use deadly force, he’s in legal jeopardy of being charged with second degree murder or manslaughter.

That doesn’t sound fair. Why, they ought to pass a law that protects a citizen’s right to defend themselves without fear of prosecution for having done so. Oh, wait! There are such laws. They’re called Stand Your Ground laws.

... Stand Your Ground concept, or “No duty to retreat,” and closely associated laws known as The Castle Doctrine (which applies to the protection of your life and property when at home), is not a new idea. In 1921, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. declared in Brown v. United States (256 U.S. 335, 343 (16 May 1921)), a case upholding the “No duty to retreat” maxim, Justice Holmes said that, “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.” {or a fist while straddled over someone's chest for that matter}

And at the heart-of-the-matter ...

... is the realization that those attempting to repeal SYG laws simply don’t want civilians to have guns in their hands. Thus, if you can be made to believe that you might be liable for prosecution for murder should you ever have to defend yourself with a firearm, then maybe you’ll come to believe that carrying a gun simply isn’t worth the risk. And that’s part of the whole overall anti-gun strategy: to make it too expensive, too onerous, too bureaucratic, and too risky to have a gun. Ergo, if you can’t ban ‘em, just make ‘em not worth the trouble.

Sound Familiar ??? Progressives ... attempting to turn citizens back into sheeple since 1921 by appealing to the {lack of} intellect of low-information voters.

 

[drthv8r]

The only thing more annoying about eric withholder besides him looking like Speedy Gonzales is his mousy sounding voice. When he talks his voice is more annoying than hussein's voice as he whistles along when he runs his pie hole. Oh eric withholders new nickname because of Fast and Furious. Speedy "Gun"zales.

 

[EL1227]

Noticed that too ...

The only thing more annoying about eric withholder besides him looking like Speedy Gonzales is his mousy sounding voice. When he talks his voice is more annoying than hussein's voice as he whistles along when he runs his pie hole. Oh eric withholders new nickname because of Fast and Furious. Speedy "Gun"zales.

His voice is VERY effeminate isn't it. That along with Obama's lispy 'S's, if he wasn't married with three kids, I would be suspect and offer another nickname.

But for now, Eric "The Red" or Speedy "Gun"zales fits ...

Andele! Andele! Ariba! Ariba!

 

[EL1227]

But wait, there's more ...

NationalReview.com
Stand Your Ground on Stand Your Ground
Such statutes don’t put anyone at risk, and rest on sound legal principles.

Reviewing American state law, the constitutional lawyer Eugene Volokh did a quick headcount this week and revealed that:

The substantial majority view among the states, by a 31-19 margin, is no duty to retreat. Florida is thus part of this substantial majority on this point. And most of these states took this view even before the recent spate of “stand your ground” statutes, including the Florida statute.​

Or should we just follow the Holder Theory of Conflict Resolution, that a citizen out and about in public, when confronted with the immediate threat of death or significant bodily harm, has a duty to attempt to retreat ?

Where's my Stamp ?

 

[Vile Shadow]

I actually heard one of the FL prosecutors say that SYG was bad law because it makes things tougher for prosecutors. Well, duh . . .

Why does it make things tougher for prosecutors? If they can't prosecute because an SYG law precludes that, that means less work they hafta do. That way they can go back to the coffee shop to enjoy another lot-tay or play another round of golf on our dime much like the community agitator-in-chief.

Following the verdict, (CBC) argued forcefully that, decades after the civil rights movement, the nation’s criminal justice system still discriminates against blacks

I love this.

This statement is usually based on prison population demographics. But what's usually left is the question of who's committing most of the crime.

Duh!!

Clearly a racist song.

Yeah well, here's another racist song...

"I wish they'd just leave me alone 'cause I'm doing alright
You can take your change on down the road
And leave me here with mine"

That ain't my America
Lynyrd Skynyrd
God and Guns
2009

Read line 2 Mr. President. That one's for you.

 

[Justin B.C.]

EL1227, please read this about the Marissa Alexander case. The "warning shot" being reported was actually aimed at the hubby, and several other things in the statement presented here make this a very different case than what is reported in the media (per the norm, right?). Granted, this is just one side, but rather compelling.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/89763383/States-Motion-in-Opposition-of-Defendants-Motion-for-Immunity