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  • DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    24,002
    Political refugee in WV
    DaemonAssassin...

    I think you may be exaggerating a bit. While they are vocal about rules they certainly do not argue with anyone unless that person visiting takes offense to being reminded of the rules.

    I saw it last weekend. They simply asked a guy to keep the business end pointed down range and he said the exact same thing you did. He has been shooting for X amount of years and has forgotten more than the RO knows. Maybe it was you?

    The same RO approached me when I first showed up and asked me if I have been to the range before. I told him yes...he reviewed a quick list of basic rules. I thanked him and he said he has one less person to worry about. No hard feelings. We laughed and never heard from him again.

    I haven't been there since April-ish because of the last incident. I also had a friend with me that witnessed the attitude of the RO. I did not violate any of the basic rules of gun safety, nor any of the posted rules.

    My issue lies with the RO that came running up behind me and screamed at me for doing something that was in total compliance with the rules of gun safety and the posted range rules. He was rude and disrespectful with his actions and words, when all he had to do was ASK what I was doing. But to come up out of nowhere and ream somebody out for picking a rifle up off the bench to put it into a case while the range was still hot is a serious issue. I had numerous run ins with the same RO accusing me of rapid fire, right after the range went hot and all I was doing was loading mags. My rifle was sitting on the left side of the bench with the bolt open and pointing downrange. I didn't even have a chance to fire the damn thing before this RO came to me. I mean seriously, my targets were still clean! How in the hell can I be rapid firing when all I have been doing is loading mags, just after I got to the range? I've been ripped apart for having my finger on the trigger between each shot while shooting a semi rifle and keeping my eye through the scope, while waiting 2-5 seconds between each shot.

    How am I being unsafe or violating a range rule when I have a sidearm in a case going to a empty lane while the range is hot? Yes that happened a few times too. I was told that was against the range rules and unless it was inspected as unloaded when I came in, I was not allowed to enter the facility. No where in the rules is that stated, if it was I would have gladly complied. I have been reamed out for having empty mags in the pistol case that were not in the sidearm, being told that is against the law.

    Also I was informed that I had an illegal AR because my barrel was less than 16 inches. How would they know the length of my barrel without measuring it? Just because I have a carbine length barrel with a rail that has a free float extension that goes beyond the gas block does not make it an SBR. When I asked him to measure it, I was told that he didn't have to and that it was an SBR. I pulled a tape measure out of my bag and showed him he was wrong (I've had this issue before because of my rail). He backed off but was all pissy the rest of the time I was there, nitpicking over everything I did, even though I did not violate the range rules.

    There is a major disconnect with those RO's, because I see the person next to me to something blatantly unsafe/against the range rules, yet the RO is standing there watching them and doesn't lift a finger or say anything. Yet I get ripped for following the range rules but violating a rule that they make up on the spot.

    My age does not truly become a factor unless it is an RO that feels like being a PITA to anybody that looks younger than 26-27. For the record I am in my early 30's and it is the general attitude of those RO's that have turned me off in regards to Cresap.

    I rarely if ever, get offended by being approached should I violate a range rule. Granted there were a few times with an HK w/LEM trigger that I did double tap, but that was the first 3 times I ever shot the HK. The RO came over and asked me to stop rapid firing, so I explained what the issue was and he understood and let it go, as soon as he realized it was not being done intentionally. He passed the word that I was shooting a new sidearm and I was unfamiliar with the LEM trigger on the HK. He also asked me to try not to let it happen again. Cool RO, no problems with him.

    The RO's that I take offense to are the ones that have their heads up their a**es and a chip on their shoulder, wanting to exert authority and dare anybody to try to knock that chip off their shoulder, just because they have an RO badge. Another thing is that there are so many transient members of Cresap, that there is little to no institutional memory. When that happens, the new RO's don't bother taking the time to get to know anybody that goes there, nor do they care to. They will make small talk and then for get about you after you are allowed to enter the range. I'm not asking to be remembered by everybody, but what I am saying is there turnover rate should be an indication that there is either something wrong with the club or the RO's themselves.

    There is one RO that is there, that I do not have an issue with, because he has gotten to know me and knows that I am safe. If he is there it is "Hey, how's it going?", catch up on the status of a friend of mine, and we go our own ways. He doesn't bother me because he has seen over the past 8-9 years that I know what I am doing with rifle/pistol and am proficient with my firearms. I rarely ever get approached by an RO unless it is a new one that has been there for less than 6 months.

    As a final note: I do not throw my weight around at any range I go to, I am quiet and keep to myself. If an RO approaches me for any reason I am respectful and courteous, even if they are the one throwing out BS. I let them spout their BS and move on. But when they go over the line, I make sure to tell them in a polite manner and courteous tone that they are wrong and why they are wrong. 9 times out of 10 they realize they are in the wrong and had the wrong person then apologize for the error. My issues with the specific RO's are the ones that have a god complex because they have an RO badge and just want to mess with somebody. AFAIC the one RO that actually laid a hand on me - then started screaming at me at the top of his lungs - as I was putting a safed rifle into a hard case (with the barrel down range the whole time) should consider himself lucky that I exercised extreme physical restraint. Nobody wants to be touched when they are putting a firearm into a case, much less want it to feel like King Kong is grabbing you, and startle the ever loving crap out of you. That was the last time I was there and after that, I have zero intention of going back until the RO's get their act together and start realizing that it is the public that pays for that range to operate/have clubs/NRA classes.

    All of you can doubt what I say for as long as you wish, but your experiences are different than mine. I will not stand for the treatment and attitudes I get from the RO's, nor will my friends stand for it when they go without me.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    24,002
    Political refugee in WV
    I don't shoot there very often anymore, it's been about a year b/c I have joined a club.

    I've had some similar experiences with getting yelled at when uncasing rifles. Some of my cases look the same on both sides and I've gotten yelled at the moment I open my case b/c the muzzle is not facing down range. If they were to wait a fraction of a second, they would've seen me close the case and turn it around before opening it again.

    This doesn't reflect on the majority of the RSOs that volunteer there, just one, maybe two, which I hope have moved on. I do appreciate that the RSO staff volunteer their time to allow the public to use their range.

    What I do like is that all I have to bring are my eyes, ears, guns and ammo. I don't have to bring targets, stands or staplers. They have a completely covered range and do all the target refreshing. I'd go back if I want to spend only an hour or so shooting a pistol b/c of how easy it is to get in and out.

    Don't ever take 2 rifles in a double rifle case, they will flip out over that. A guy next to me had 2 rifles in one case and pulled the one out that was pointing downrange, just as an RO came flying down the walking area to ream him a new one. The RO laid into him for about 3 minutes at the top of his lungs, while the RO that was standing there tried to intercede, to prevent it from becoming a huge scene. The guy wound up saying screw it, put the rifle back in his case and left. He didn't want to deal with the RO giving him anymore grief and threatening to kick him out. I don't know if he told the RO standing behind him of the condition of the rifles in the case before he started to uncase them.
     

    boss66tcode

    a bit of an Eddie Haskle
    Sep 8, 2008
    2,024
    in 'da hills
    I shot there for an hour this morning. Today, the RSO's were observant, but not like some past experiences described here. I brought my son who is 9, and though he was equipped with his hunter safety card to show them he knew the rules, they were very at ease with him being around.

    If there are RSO's with a wedgie over there, they weren't there today.
     

    ATTom

    Active Member
    Aug 17, 2010
    958
    Its not an exaggeration. I know shane and topher and the chill guy that habgs out by the door from back when I did not belong to a club with a range. Most were cool all the time. But there was the old guy that grabbed hold of my cased ak-47 that was zipped around the scope (in other words the scope was sticking out the top because my case was not tall enough) and told me to not come back with that piece of crap rifle that was not totally cased. I told him if he did unhand my rifle, I was going to shove it where the sun don't shine. Of course that was around 2006 and I hardly have seen him since.

    Overall its a good range. My biggest problem is how busy it is. I could hardly get 2 hours a week
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    24,002
    Political refugee in WV
    Its not an exaggeration. I know shane and topher and the chill guy that habgs out by the door from back when I did not belong to a club with a range. Most were cool all the time. But there was the old guy that grabbed hold of my cased ak-47 that was zipped around the scope (in other words the scope was sticking out the top because my case was not tall enough) and told me to not come back with that piece of crap rifle that was not totally cased. I told him if he did unhand my rifle, I was going to shove it where the sun don't shine. Of course that was around 2006 and I hardly have seen him since.

    Overall its a good range. My biggest problem is how busy it is. I could hardly get 2 hours a week

    Believe me the screwball RO's are still there. They just work on random Sundays, so it is hit or miss with running into them.
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,838
    MD
    I haven't be in a while, like years. I prefer to drive to peacemaker, another 25 mins each way, they are MUCH better in EVERY way.
     

    Topher

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 8, 2008
    4,818
    Fredneck
    Its not an exaggeration. I know shane and topher and the chill guy that habgs out by the door from back when I did not belong to a club with a range. Most were cool all the time. But there was the old guy that grabbed hold of my cased ak-47......

    FYI... Shane and I left around the same time. Not sure if he is back. Over a year ago there about 10 of us who left the club. I have not been back.
     

    FireAtWill

    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
    Sep 12, 2013
    35
    Frederick
    We've been there many times over the past 13 years or so. Yep...there's periodically an RSO there who's a little full of himself. I fully appreciate the safety focus of the range and the RSOs...that's one reason I started both of my sons shooting there. I wanted them to learn that range safety is serious stuff. I have no desire to be swept by some newb while all the RSOs stand around BSing, and that doesn't happen at Cresap from what I've experienced. But yes, there's a way to make a serious and swift point as an RSO without being a d-bag. Not every RSO has that gift. I've been shooting for about 46 years...if I make a mistake I fully expect an RSO to intervene...but not to be a jack@$$ about it. My experiences there have been positive...we'll be back.

    Update: My wife and 2 sons went there Sunday 10/13. Had a brief wait to get 2 handgun stations...place was pretty crowded, which should surprise no one at this time of year (pre-deer hunting) and immediately following thousands of people buying new firearms. The RSOs were spot on in their approach to people. From what I saw, there were quite a few newb mistakes and the RSOs handled all of them well. Again, we'll be back.
     
    Last edited:

    TANK222

    Active Member
    Dec 19, 2012
    137
    Frederick
    I shot there for about a hour around 11 this am. The only issue I had was I didn't want to wait two hours to shoot on the rifle range. So I shot my pistol and left. Every time I've been the guys were always nice. I took my hunter Saftey course there as well with out any issues.
     

    mrbule

    Active Member
    Jan 12, 2010
    786
    I went with my wife her sister an husband this afternoon.
    We spent the last hour and a half at the pistol range. And like every other time I have been there, it's just a fun place to shoot.
    Never had an RSOs yell at us, but they have always been willing to give the girls a tip here and there and always make us feel safe, especially when im with with people that shoot maybe once a year.
    Even chatted it up with one of them about how I was pulling shots while I was trying to change up my grip.
    Absolutely love the place. And happy for the 1 or 2 Sundays we drive out from silver spring to spend the day.
     

    Markp

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2008
    9,392
    such as??

    I don't understand posts like this. If you're going to be cryptic, why say anything at all? :facepalm:

    How about this for a reason... I got a "lifetime" ban for questioning the vague rules they had in place. Granted, there was some asshat remarks made both by me and members of the club, but certainly nothing I did warranted a lifetime ban. I wasn't at the range at the time, this was in response to an online posting... I had shot there before and never had been corrected for anything remotely close to a safety or rules violation. All I asked was for clarification of their NFA policy.

    Mark
     

    omegared24

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 23, 2011
    4,747
    Ijamsville, MD
    How about this for a reason... I got a "lifetime" ban for questioning the vague rules they had in place. Granted, there was some asshat remarks made both by me and members of the club, but certainly nothing I did warranted a lifetime ban. I wasn't at the range at the time, this was in response to an online posting... I had shot there before and never had been corrected for anything remotely close to a safety or rules violation. All I asked was for clarification of their NFA policy.

    Mark

    Link?

    This isn't directed to you...just a general comment...

    Based on some of the comments I see posted in this forum it is no surprise some people have a rough time while others don't. I have been at that range a million times and have never seen anything close to what was described in this thread. I guess the crappy attitudes of the RO's works because I have yet to hear of any accidents at Cresap.
     

    Grits

    In God I Trust And Live
    Jul 12, 2012
    203
    Frederick
    Spent the morning there yesterday as well with my son. Two weeks in a row. Both times I have been there early and enjoyed the conversations while standing in line. Saw some of the same guys both times. The RSOs have been coming up to me when I break for a few minutes from enjoying my new 1911. We have talked gun talk, laughed a little. One last week was about my age, yesterday was was a younger guy. I have been going to Cresap's since the early 60's, when Col. Bartgis was there. If you guys think you have it bad now, you don't know nothing. The Col. Could rip you a new one. God how I miss it!
     

    jpo183

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2013
    4,116
    in Maryland
    I think the case rule is a very ridiculous rule. I for one do not have cases for all my rifles. I know this causes a hissy fit for many a RSO, I remember going to continental and one of the management (I think head RSO) caught me at the door. He started to get an attitude BUT I was respectful, demonstrated the gun was in a safe direction and the action was open. I even then asked if he would like to escort it inside. His attitude went from "IMA REAM YOU" to a very chilled and relaxed atmosphere. Its their rule though , so you either follow it or go somewhere else. Fighting it just makes RSOs mad.

    I have never been to CRESPA so I do not want to defend or deny any thing that has been said. But lets just say I had an experience this weekend that would explain a lot why some RSOs become jerks.

    There is a difference in gun safety and range safety. Range safety is keeping EVERYONE on the same page and making sure everyone does the same thing. Something that is "gun safe" can be very dangerous on a busy range. Experienced shooters can go to a range for the first time and feel demeaned and felt like they were being rude to them, however there are different safety concerns at a range when multiple people are shooting.

    If one guy does something, it can start a chain reaction and it can endanger the entire range. I remember getting yelled at at Continental when the range had one guy on it and I was putting away my empty, action opened pistol. The RSO told me I just muzzled the entire range.

    Did I, well technically, even though it was empty. To me it was foolish, but after going through RSO class, etc. That stupid rule prevents a stupid person from doing something stupid.

    Maintain control and organization on the line, that is the RSOs job.
     

    Markp

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2008
    9,392
    Link?

    This isn't directed to you...just a general comment...

    Based on some of the comments I see posted in this forum it is no surprise some people have a rough time while others don't. I have been at that range a million times and have never seen anything close to what was described in this thread. I guess the crappy attitudes of the RO's works because I have yet to hear of any accidents at Cresap.

    The thread that started it all:
    http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=21833&highlight=cresap

    More asshattery before the ban:
    http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=32869&highlight=cresap

    Asshattery after the ban <- a significant portion of it being mine:
    http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=33253&highlight=cresap
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    24,002
    Political refugee in WV

    MikeH

    Active Member
    May 9, 2005
    346
    Don't ever take 2 rifles in a double rifle case, they will flip out over that. A guy next to me had 2 rifles in one case and pulled the one out that was pointing downrange, just as an RO came flying down the walking area to ream him a new one.

    Had that happen to me a couple of weeks ago, though the RO didn't go as far as reaming my chamber. I do wish that Cresap would develop a safety rule for this particular situation.

    I'm perfectly fine with keeping the muzzle downrange all the time when I handle a firearm. However, once it's cleared and laid down on the case, there shouldn't be an issue with rotating the case to accommodate another firearm while keeping the latter pointed downrange, too.
     

    EvilOlive

    Salty Marine
    Dec 13, 2012
    227
    Frederick, MD
    This place is very near my house, and I have been on many occasions. There are a ton of things positive about the place, but I will say that the RSO's can be a bit over the top. Not of all them, or even most of them, but certainly some of them.

    I'm all for safety, but I have seen the berate a person to the point of having them so worked up they introduced _more_ of a safety issue than they were addressing.

    I will certainly continue to go and use the range, but I'm not sure I have much interest in a membership. The attitude of just that couple of RSO's is a bit too off putting.

    On a side note, my wife attended a women's shooting class via FCC that was hosted there and had nothing but positive things to say.
     

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