Cop Safety

[G29guy]

Didn't see a thread on here yet about this, and maybe w/ the LEO personnel on here we can start the convo and the change....I have yet to meet a LEO that actually has additional armor plates on top of their soft armor...Every cop I've seen in NoVA has the pockets on their armor for plates and they don't use the addt'l plates...I asked one Dep on a SWAT team if they had plates, " no....and I don't know if we're allowed to use them..." He said after thinking...well even if they aren't provided by Dept, they aren't that expensive so I don't know why they wouldn't buy a pr themselves, a front and back plate are about the cost of good boots....The standard soft armor that every LEO I have come across is not sufficient protection (I'm sure elsewhere they do use plates, but not locally in Fairfax County, Loudoun County or Arlington County, or PW- 4 Metro type areas).

I bring this up because last night in Prince William County (Lakeridge, VA) while responding to a domestic w/ possible shots fired around 1730hrs, Rookie Ofcr Ashley Guindon was killed immediately upon entering the property...2 other Officers were also shot and are still alive...I was able to ascertain that she was in fact shot in the chest...would a plate have saved her life? I would say so...it was Ashley's very 1st shift on the street, and her last...Sad and probably able to have been prevented....

Why do cops need "military style equipment"? Because even in ritzy suburban Liberal NoVA they get shot at...

 

[outrider58]

Not a LEO, a lot of LEO 'cases' require foot chases. Hard to do that with 35 extra lbs. hanging off you. I know, In Vietnam for instance, your average 'ground bounder' had to wear a steel pot and a flack vest. A few units, Airborne, Recondo, and almost all SF did not in belief that "speed is security". The lighter the load, the quicker the re-action. It's a trade-off. You takes yer chances.

 

[G29guy]

Not a LEO, a lot of LEO 'cases' require foot chases. Hard to do that with 35 extra lbs. hanging off you. I know, In Vietnam for instance, your average 'ground bounder' had to wear a steel pot and a flack vest. A few units, Airborne, Recondo, and almost all SF did not in belief that "speed is security". The lighter the load, the quicker the re-action. It's a trade-off. You takes yer chances.

Look up the specs on AR500 if you're curious, they don't weigh that much, couple pounds a piece...maybe around 4lbs ea?

 

[basscat]

Not practical for every day duties. You can protect yourself only so far before the risks out way the benefits. Armor for the chest, helmet to protect the head, armor for the legs and thighs,etc.. You have to draw a line somewhere.

 

[outrider58]

Look up the specs on AR500 if you're curious, they don't weigh that much, couple pounds a piece...maybe around 4lbs ea?

I have it. Front plate, back plate, two side plates...do the math. Again, speed IS security. I'm not in that business so, I can't speak for those who are. I'm just offering some reasonings.

 

[G29guy]

Sorry....5.5 to 7.5lbs ea plate ( front/back)...I've worn the full Paracleat w/ plates, wasn't that heavy...anyway, even if you cheated and only used a front plate, it would save some lives

 

[kgain673]

Look up the specs on AR500 if you're curious, they don't weigh that much, couple pounds a piece...maybe around 4lbs ea?

The truth is, every couple of pounds adds up. Now I'm no longer in uniform I come home less tired but work longer hours. It's because I'm not carrying around all that added weight and sweating like crazy all year round. Cops really need added protection but wearing the rifle plates concealed will be a tough sell for most cops. And the exterior armor carriers looks too aggressive for the public to handle. The best protection for cops and citizens alike, will be when the legal system holds violent criminals responsible for their actions. Too many people in our state have multiple arrests for violent gun crimes and assaults.

 

[StantonCree]

The truth is, every couple of pounds adds up. Now I'm no longer in uniform I come home less tired but work longer hours. It's because I'm not carrying around all that added weight and sweating like crazy all year round. Cops really need added protection but wearing the rifle plates concealed will be a tough sell for most cops. And the exterior armor carriers looks too aggressive for the public to handle. The best protection for cops and citizens alike, will be when the legal system holds violent criminals responsible for their actions. Too many people in our state have multiple arrests for violent gun crimes and assaults.

And BOOM Laides and Gents

Freaking

BOOM

 

[outrider58]

The truth is, every couple of pounds adds up. Now I'm no longer in uniform I come home less tired but work longer hours. It's because I'm not carrying around all that added weight and sweating like crazy all year round. Cops really need added protection but wearing the rifle plates concealed will be a tough sell for most cops. And the exterior armor carriers looks too aggressive for the public to handle. The best protection for cops and citizens alike, will be when the legal system holds violent criminals responsible for their actions. Too many people in our state have multiple arrests for violent gun crimes and assaults.

Pretty much...

 

[G29guy]

The truth is, every couple of pounds adds up. Now I'm no longer in uniform I come home less tired but work longer hours. It's because I'm not carrying around all that added weight and sweating like crazy all year round. Cops really need added protection but wearing the rifle plates concealed will be a tough sell for most cops. And the exterior armor carriers looks too aggressive for the public to handle. The best protection for cops and citizens alike, will be when the legal system holds violent criminals responsible for their actions. Too many people in our state have multiple arrests for violent gun crimes and assaults.

Pretty much everyone here has moved to the "outer (or body) carry" now so may as well throw the plate in the vests too...they've done this in response to research on LEO bad backs and the belt system

 

[G29guy]

...and I got no qualms w/ holding people to their actions, the guy that shot them last night will die...killing a uniformed officer is mandatory death penalty in VA...but that didn't and doesn't help them when douchey douche opens up on them

 

[outrider58]

Pretty much everyone here has moved to the "outer (or body) carry" now so may as well throw the plate in the vests too...they've done this in response to research on LEO bad backs and the belt system

I think most MoCo guys and gals are going this rout, so you are probably right. I know, if I was a LEO, my wife would not let me out the door without armor.

 

[lawdog89]

The hard plates we are supplied with have ballistic properties even though they are meant primarily for blunt force protection to the sternum. I like having a hard plate there just in case. I think most officers are supplied with trauma plates but I'm sure the department has to purchase them.

 

[5.56blaster]

While deployed my vest weighed 52 pounds with plates, ammo, first aid and Comm. I have nerve damage at L4-5 from being in armour 12-16 hours a day and running in it. It would have helped save me if needed but it was hell by the end of the day. State side I only used soft stuff with a trauma plate in the front.

 

[itsslow98]

Unfortunately the truth is, you can only protect yourself so much. Sometimes all of the training in the world and best equipment has no effect in preventing injury or death. We just saw that In harford county unfortunately. I would agree though that plates and gear like that should be kept in patrol cars for use when responding to certain calls(active shooter etc). In reality wearing all that gear for 8-16hrs a day wouldn't work.

 

[G29guy]

Unfortunately the truth is, you can only protect yourself so much. Sometimes all of the training in the world and best equipment has no effect in preventing injury or death. We just saw that In harford county unfortunately. I would agree though that plates and gear like that should be kept in patrol cars for use when responding to certain calls(active shooter etc). In reality wearing all that gear for 8-16hrs a day wouldn't work.

well, that is a compromise that sounds reasonable, esp for a "domestic w/ possible shots fired..."

 

[G29guy]

Unfortunately the truth is, you can only protect yourself so much. Sometimes all of the training in the world and best equipment has no effect in preventing injury or death. We just saw that In harford county unfortunately. I would agree though that plates and gear like that should be kept in patrol cars for use when responding to certain calls(active shooter etc). In reality wearing all that gear for 8-16hrs a day wouldn't work.

right...but if they upgraded their armor I think they'd survive a lot more...theres not really IED's, 50cals, or PKMs going off here...not yet at least...

believe me, I'm not a "no one should die" unrealistic person...however we have a bunch of people here saying "aww too heavy..." yet a few thousand miles away people carry that and much more daily, runnin, gunning, chasing people...etc

 

[G29guy]

While deployed my vest weighed 52 pounds with plates, ammo, first aid and Comm. I have nerve damage at L4-5 from being in armour 12-16 hours a day and running in it. It would have helped save me if needed but it was hell by the end of the day. State side I only used soft stuff with a trauma plate in the front.

what era was that? not being a dick, seriously asking...

they don't carry that much ammo (avg 45rds depending on weapon- 1 mag loaded and 2 back up), comm is light (bout a pound...no PRCs), and most don't carry FAKs, which for a cop in the modern US should be no more than a TQ or 2, (2) 5x7 pads, and 2 quick clot pads...usually someone isn't going to pack their own wound, they can't start lines or do decompressions, so its pretty simple..

 

[kgain673]

right...but if they upgraded their armor I think they'd survive a lot more...theres not really IED's, 50cals, or PKMs going off here...not yet at least...

believe me, I'm not a "no one should die" unrealistic person...however we have a bunch of people here saying "aww too heavy..." yet a few thousand miles away people carry that and much more daily, runnin, gunning, chasing people...etc

Those guys running and gunning are soldiers who PT frequently as a part of the job. Many of them are men and women in their prime. They also are not required to wear Level IIIA concealable body armor under their Class A or Class B uniforms and wear coreframs shoes. And concealable body armor is so hot all year round its insane. Plus most of those soldiers are not required to wear all of their gear around their waist, pressing on their lower spine for 8-12 plus hours. Most of the soldiers gear is carried above the waist. I'm not complaining, but the reality is comfort and function is not the primary factor in the American patrol officer's uniform. Public perception is. The uniform soldiers are wearing is much cooler then the wool blend most police departments still mandate. The american police officers uniform in most departments is still 50-60 years old. The public and agencies still want that "big hat" and bright medals on their officers for some reason. The vests with velcro and BDU pants make the police look even more "scary" then the already look. When you still have agencies wearing the same uniform they have worn for 70 + years there is a problem.

 

[Name Taken]

Those guys running and gunning are soldiers who PT frequently as a part of the job. Many of them are men and women in their prime. They also are not required to wear Level IIIA concealable body armor under their Class A or Class B uniforms and wear coreframs shoes. And concealable body armor is so hot all year round its insane. Plus most of those soldiers are not required to wear all of their gear around their waist, pressing on their lower spine for 8-12 plus hours. Most of the soldiers gear is carried above the waist. I'm not complaining, but the reality is comfort and function is not the primary factor in the American patrol officer's uniform. Public perception is. The uniform soldiers are wearing is much cooler then the wool blend most police departments still mandate. The american police officers uniform in most departments is still 50-60 years old. The public and agencies still want that "big hat" and bright medals on their officers for some reason. The vests with velcro and BDU pants make the police look even more "scary" then the already look. When you still have agencies wearing the same uniform they have worn for 70 + years there is a problem.

Yup.