Confiscation in Maryland

[kenpo333]

I was talking to an FFL in Whayleville( near ocean city) and he had just gotten a call to pick up a full ak and an ar lower that he had sold to a previous customer on an 8 day release. The customer had bought a handgun from him in 2011 and had had no problem. Theycjust came back and said that he had to get the two items he had sold and they were going to go pick up the pistol since they had approved that purchase and were now rescinding it.

I was told that nothing had happened since 2011 and that the guidelines had changed and they could not go back to previous sales. In fact the infraction happened when he was teenager.

Is this true? Can they do that?

 

[Straightshooter]

Sou D's fishy. It wouldn't be his job to recover the firearms. That's wat the cops get paid to do.

 

[tc617]

It was my understanding that the MSP confiscates firearms, not the FFL.

I wonder if he has a PBJ for a crime that had more than 2 years jail time and is now prohibited from purchasing firearms because of FSA 2013?

 

[dblas]

Depending on how old he is, if it was a conviction for a juvenile offense that would be:

A crime of violence
Any Violation classified as a felony in the State of MD.
Any violation classified as a misdemeanor in the State of MD that carries a maximum penalty of over 2 years.

And he is under 30 years of age, then yep, they can come back and recover any firearms.

 

[Kinetic]

Slightly OT, but does anyone know if back during the Frenzy, did the MSP give preliminary GO/NOGOs to FFLs doing 8 day releases prior to the actual release but long before the actual background check was completed?

I've often wondered what was the purpose of having the FFL hand write "8th day release" across the top of the submitted 77r other than to try to head something like this off at the pass.

 

[Mdeng]

Slightly OT, but does anyone know if back during the Frenzy, did the MSP give preliminary GO/NOGOs to FFLs doing 8 day releases prior to the actual release but long before the actual background check was completed?

I've often wondered what was the purpose of having the FFL hand write "8th day release" across the top of the submitted 77r other than to try to head something like this off at the pass.

No they refused to and would not allow the FFL to do an instant check through NICS.

 

[kenpo333]

The FFl did go and get the two items he sold and released The handgun was turned into the police by the owner. Sorry If I wasn't clear.

 

[Rack&Roll]

drip…drip…drip…

All hurricanes start with a couple rain drops…

Waiting for an age limit, then the eye chart test they use at the DMV, then live fire component, a blood pressure cutoff, then a 50% safety tax…

drip, drip, drip...

 

[Brooklyn]

The FFl did go and get the two items he sold and released The handgun was turned into the police by the owner. Sorry If I wasn't clear.

Wow... that has liability concerns written all over it...

Its msp job.. ...period.

 

[Zibner]

What's wrong with this picture; man who buys guns not allowed to have them, go get them back? I know he didn't want to loose his FFL lic but once it's out of his store it's not his responsibility to take the risk of getting it back.

 

[Straightshooter]

Still doesn't sound right. Dealer sells gun and gets paid for it. MSP retrieves the guns and gives them back to the dealer? These guns would have been tossed into the meltdown bin after the trial is over.

 

[Mr H]

We have heard of several instances for 8-day release where, once MSP finally got around to doing their 17,000 point background check, the buyer came back "Disapproved", and have been required to turn over the firearm(s).

This part is not that unusual (given the times).

My understanding was that getting them turned in/'recovered' was to be handled by MSP. I can't see how getting the FFL to act in their stead is legal.

 

[RedWolf762]

I was told that nothing had happened since 2011 and that the guidelines had changed and they could not go back to previous sales. In fact the infraction happened when he was teenager.

This is the problem. I thought that the whole point of the Juvenile Justice System was to focus on rehabilitation and steering youth that had gotten into trouble in the right direction before throwing them into the criminal justice system and branding them for life with a criminal record.

Granted that the OP did not disclose a more accurate definition of "teenager" and, in reality, "teenager" could mean an 18-19 year old. The bottom line is a lot of people got into some form of trouble or another when they were minors but have had no run-ins with the law as adults whatsoever. Every time I read something like this it makes me mad as hell!

 

[pitpawten]

Could be a case where everyone is familiar with each-other and the FFL offered because they known the person and have good rapport with them and the police were happy to not get involved because they think the situation stinks too.

That's the way I'm going to picture it anyway

 

[adit]

And maybe the FFL gets to keep the paid-for firearms for resale.

 

[LeadSled1]

It was posted by the OP though that he previously purchased a handgun in 2011 and came back not disapproved. So something new in the law (PBJ maybe) caused him to now be disapproved and also they took the firearm he previously owned.

 

[rwbow1969]

Well, here's a proposed House bill that will seal the deal.

Oppose as Written
(HB623)- Public Safety - Criminal Justice Information System - Integration With Maryland Automated Firearms System Delegates Simmons and Kramer
Requiring the Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services to integrate the Criminal Justice Information System with the Maryland Automated Firearms System to allow the Department of State Police to identify individuals who purchased a firearm prior to October 1, 2013, and were subsequently convicted of a disqualifying crime requiring the surrender of firearms; etc.
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?id=HB0623&stab=01&pid=billpage&tab=subject3&ys=2014RS
~~In the House - Hearing 3/04 at 1:00 p.m.




This is a post from me in the MSI forum I'm sharing my thoughts because I wrote it:

The date is when the(SB281) or FSA 2013 took effect. With the new bill came new disqualifying crimes that would prohibit someone from possessing a firearm. These new offenses did not prohibit possession before Oct. 1 2013 but, with the new law enacted it made more people prohibited for possession.

I'm thinking I want to oppose this bill but, if you say that, you say it's alright for these now newly prohibited people to possess firearms.

Twice a year they want to run everyones name through the system who purchased a firearm before Oct. 1 2013 and see if you screwed up. If so, they will be wanting your firearms.

People that owned and purchased firearms before Oct. 1 2013 were not held accountable to these new disqualifying crimes. Now that the law passed, some of these people figured out they cannot purchase under the new law and don't do so. Now the state wants to find them because if they don't attempt to purchase again, the system doesn't pick up on them having firearms.

Much like going retroactive on domestic violence abusers possessing firearms, the state wants to mop up on these people retroactively also.



This bill will be heard in House Judiciary on 3/04 at 1:00 p.m. Please come this day and make your voice heard.

 

[Mr H]

truncated link

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2014RS/bills/hb/hb0623F.pdf

So... We do 2 things with this bill...

Legislate "good bookkeeping" and force an audit of systems that should be working together to begin with, and...

Assume that anyone pre-10/13 will be likely to commit a disqualifying act, and recheck them all semi-annually.

Amazing...

 

[MJD438]

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=01&id=hb0623&tab=subject3&ys=2014RS - full link.

 

[Rack&Roll]

My understanding is that the FFL's participation is to contact the disallowed owner to give him/her the bad news and suggest that the firearm be transferred to an eligible extended family member as a first step.

If the disallowed owner hesitates, the MSP comes knockin' . Or the MSP holds it pending transfer. Definitely doesn't have to be forfeited.

In this case, it might be that no family member had the $$ to pay this owner back and a deal was struck for the FFL to buy them back as used firearms, or consign them.