Confirmed: HQL Needed to Take Possession of Handgun After September 30

[ShallNotInfringe]

So then one must conclude that the ND taking so long is being done on purpose. According to the wait "curve", mine should have been only 60 to 90 days. It's getting progressively worse. The MSP has been stuck in the 04/10 to 04/16 ND area for weeks now. I'm seeing reports of 120+ days now.

The bill passed on 4/4. Think there's a correlation?

Wonder what's going to happen in September...

 

[Publius]

What I'm asking is, are all of those Marylander's that purchased regulated firearms before 10/01 subject to the laws that will apply after 10/01 if their n/d's come back AFTER 10/01?

There will be tens of thousands of firearms sold before 10/01 that will get an ND only after 10/01. All of them are grandfathered in, no matter when the buyers pick them up. Even semi-auto rifles being banned are waived in as long as you simply have a purchase order dated pre- 10/01. However, according to the office of the AG (see link in the first post of this thread), all handguns picked up after 10/01 will require a handgun qualification license. We knew that was possible (that's what SB281 says), but we are still incredulous in light of the fact the MSP has clearly demonstrated it cannot handle its existing burden, much less the huge additional burden of issuing handgun licenses to all handgun buyers picking up their handguns after 10/01. It is crystal clear this is a train wreck that will end up in court because after 10/01 the state government will not be able to blame the delays on the dealers who are voluntarily waiting for the ND's. All Maryland dealers will have to wait for an HQL to transfer a handgun after 10/01, and so all delays will be squarely the fault of the state of Maryland. The state has only seven weeks to get its act together, which we know will not happen.

 

[fabsroman]

There will be tens of thousands of firearms sold before 10/01 that will get an ND only after 10/01. All of them are grandfathered in, no matter when the buyers pick them up. Even semi-auto rifles being banned are waived in as long as you simply have a purchase order dated pre- 10/01. However, according to the office of the AG (see link in the first post of this thread), all handguns picked up after 10/01 will require a handgun qualification license. We knew that was possible (that's what SB281 says), but we are still incredulous in light of the fact the MSP has clearly demonstrated it cannot handle its existing burden, much less the huge additional burden of issuing handgun licenses to all handgun buyers picking up their handguns after 10/01. It is crystal clear this is a train wreck that will end up in court because after 10/01 the state government will not be able to blame the delays on the dealers who are voluntarily waiting for the ND's. All Maryland dealers will have to wait for an HQL to transfer a handgun after 10/01, and so all delays will be squarely the fault of the state of Maryland. The state has only seven weeks to get its act together, which we know will not happen.

That will not happen in 7 years. Who knows, maybe in 70 years things will have gotten so bad that they can only get better.

 

[Brooklyn]

The law was written as an "or" and includes all 3 transactions independently worded.

The delay is a major infringement for purchasers, but actually from the FFL perspective, it is a much more serious case -impeding commerce for them is huge and if they don't get those HQL's out, this will be interesting. Just one day of commerce lost should be a big deal. The longer it goes on, the fines should grow large.

Who was at the private party for Obama's second inauguration?

Still problematic -- first rule of litigation is to contest everything and concede nothing -- you can not raise new questions later if you do not raise them initially I forget the latin of course ..
Not that the court will agree, but you loose the claim forever if you do not raise it.

 

[Brooklyn]

Yep. And who's been visiting the Governor's mansion... I am not kidding. Do they keep a log and can we file a PIA to get the list.

Yes they keep a log --- that's why they are not meeting there

There will be no fingerprints on this --- unless one of his underlings gives him up... but discovery at the lowest level may give up some mid level people and so on...

but I would not waste time on it.

 

[Brooklyn]

So then one must conclude that the ND taking so long is being done on purpose. According to the wait "curve", mine should have been only 60 to 90 days. It's getting progressively worse. The MSP has been stuck in the 04/10 to 04/16 ND area for weeks now. I'm seeing reports of 120+ days now.

If proven this is gold. But harm is done by the dealers according to the state not the state. Convenient no ? However once HQL is in play they loose that fig leaf and they are doing harm... if deliberate delay can be proven its gold ...

 

[Mr H]

Yes they keep a log --- that's why they are not meeting there

There will be no fingerprints on this --- unless one of his underlings gives him up... but discovery at the lowest level may give up some mid level people and so on...

Well stated

 

[ChrisD]

Probably will not do a bit of good but I sent this to my State Senator and Delegate(s)

Dear Senator & Delegate,
I am writing in reference the letter from the Attorney General of Maryland (see above link) concerning the requirement of a "Handgun Qualification License" to take delivery of legally purchased handguns that were bought prior to October 1. The MD State Police are the ONLY point of contact for NICS background checks. And as such, in light of the passing of SB 281, there had to be an inkling of suspicion amongst the General Assembly members that prior to it's enactment, there would be a surge in firearms purchases. Currently background checks are running about 110 days. MD has a one regulated firearm purchase in a thirty day period, as well as a wait (supposedly) of seven days from purchase to accept delivery of said regulated firearm. Now with the background check taking so long from the MSP, and not the fault of someone lawfully making a purchase, HOW CAN THE STATE CHANGE THE RULES FOR TAKING POSSESSION OF ONE'S PROPERTY in the middle of the state's own failure to live up to it's obligation to send a "Not Disapproved" to the selling dealer? I currently have a purchase from *** *, 2013 that due to the delays at the MSP, I still do not have. After reading the letter from the AG, if the state fails to perform a background check by October 1, I will be required to go to the additional time and expense to obtain a "HQL" to receive property that I have already purchased, and should have been released to me on *** **. I fully understand that the state does not want the firearms to fall into the hands of someone that can not legally own one. However, this amounts to an extremely unfair burden on the citizens that have complied with the law that was in effect when the purchase was made. The required "HQL" should not be required for lawful purchases made by citizens prior to the October 1 enactment of SB 281, and that may be held beyond that date due to MSP delays. I am requesting that someone from the G.A. look into this matter, as it effects many MD citizens.
Thank You,
ChrisD.

Reply from Senator (soon retired) Jacobs office to my email:

Dear Mr. D:

Thank you for writing Senator Jacobs about the Attorney General's office opinion regarding the requirement after October 1, 2013 of the HQL for purchases made before the new law went into effect. This is an outrage and Senator Jacobs has written to Col. Marcus Brown, Superintendent of the Maryland State Police. She is supporting Del. Kevin Kelly's request that the FFL's be allowed to make contact with the FBI's NICS system either by phone or through the internet to obtain an initial check, and if given an affirmative reply and a transaction number, release the firearm to the purchaser after the state's seven-day waiting period.

Before Senate Bill 281 - the Firearm Safety Act of 2013, was introduced in the 2013 legislative session, gun purchases had already surged due to the horrific incident at Sandy Hook in December and the call for stricter gun control.

You are correct in your assessment that legislators who pushed for and voted SB-281 into law should have considered how to deal with the already present backlog within the bill.

Sincerely,
Cynthia W. Titus
Legislative Aide to Senator Nancy C. Jacobs


Please flood your state policritters with emails over this. Let them know that 281 is not a forgotten issue.

 

[Mr H]

Please flood your state policritters with emails over this. Let them know that 281 is not a forgotten issue.

Thank you!

 

[paxfish]

If proven this is gold. But harm is done by the dealers according to the state not the state. Convenient no ? However once HQL is in play they loose that fig leaf and they are doing harm... if deliberate delay can be proven its gold ...

Would it make sense for MSI to send a PIA request seeking all correspondence on this topic?

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Opengov/whatisPIA.pdf

 

[marte616]

Would it make sense for MSI to send a PIA request seeking all correspondence on this topic?

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Opengov/whatisPIA.pdf

I sent a PIA 5 months ago requesting a list of regulated firearms MDSP Had knowledge being on my possession..never got a response or even acknowledgement of receipt..and I sent it certified mail....

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

I sent a PIA 5 months ago requesting a list of regulated firearms MDSP Had knowledge being on my possession..never got a response or even acknowledgement of receipt..and I sent it certified mail....

See now, thats just messed up.

Yeah, we're gun owners, but we are residents of the state and pay their salaries. Must get confusing for them to be beholden to us (for money) and have it in for us at the same time.

 

[L0gic]

Would it be wrong to turn that AG opinion URL into a QR code and start sticking it on doors of non-on-time dealers?

 

[Shamr0ck]

Would it be wrong to turn that AG opinion URL into a QR code and start sticking it on doors of non-on-time dealers?

I like your style....



---
Shamr0ck

 

[sxs]

I was told at MSP and it is written on the form that the course had to have been taken since 2002. I went back to MSP and took my original Hunters safety Card from 1977 and they told me it was no good. I then went to DNR and received a replacement card with a current date on it.

I didn't believe it either and suggested to the MSP that it would mean that everyone that may have been hunting for 30 or 40 years would have to have a card after 2002, and they said "yes".

Actually, Hunter's Safety sufficed as a substitute for watching the video's since, well when the law regarding training went into effect! I thought that was a hoot (well, NOT!) when it went into effect. I have been a Hunter's safety Instructor in excess of 20 years and took my original course in 1981! I have played a role in helping train hundreds of students. Nevertheless, My HS card didn't suffice nor MY INSTRUCTOR'S card as it wasn't specified in the law. I took a 2 hr seminar at a AA County courthouse before it was clear that a video would be sufficient. The only reason I can conceive of for this is that a minor amount of handgun specific info has been mandated as part of the course (my clubs HS team has been teaching more than that practically forever). BTW, when I say minor, I really mean minor like just mentioning them and their action types.

 

[torched02]

We were told at a dealers meeting yesterday with the MSP that they have yet to decide or receive word from the AG on the final denial or acceptance of the HQL being required for handgun pick up after the 10/01. We should look for communication from them in a "couple of weeks".

 

[BeerHunter]

Oh the old, "in two weeks" excuse. Where have we heard that one?

 

[jkerm3]

Haha. What a joke. You'd think they'd have this ironed out by now. "In a couple of weeks" will soon mean Oct. 1 and then what?!?!

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Listen, the law is clear.

Take your chances. I won't be.

 

[bwceng11]

MSP licensing Div is currently working on May 11th forms