Clean slate laws

[Occam]

Okay, I think I was misreading you.

Sorry I wasn't clearer. The topic makes me a little testy, and I don't communicate well when I'm testy.

 

[eruby]

No violent felon prohibited from possessing a gun has ever possessed a gun

The system works

 

[N3uka]

Seems to be no repercussions for criminals having guns illegally. I would prefer one at least go through the process to get legally. They should add that if you re-offend you get mandatory life.

 

[outrider58]

Sorry I wasn't clearer. The topic makes me a little testy, and I don't communicate well when I'm testy.

Yeah, every time this topic comes up, I cringe.

 

[Melnic]

They would have to prove they deserve that right restored.

I prefer not to live in a theoretical world.

agree.
I'm also of the mindset that many times, they DON"T do the time they deserved.
Armed robbery out in 2-3 years, gets gun rights back? don't think so.
Running bootleg Whiskey, the Duke boys should get their rights back.

 

[joppaj]

Meh. If it was part of your sentence when the sentence was earned, than fluck you, no restoration of rights. That sentence was contemporaneous to your crime and your subsequent ability to not screw up in prison doesn't change that. I would support a change to sentencing laws that would remove this as an automatic issue and would require judges to stipulate it if they intend it for violent felonies.

 

[alucard0822]

20,000 gun laws and criminals can still get firearms at will. Meanwhile the rest of us have to prove we are not prohibited, go through background checks, and have out rights infringed in countless ways. I say scrap the whole thing, I would rather EVERYONE have the means to protect themselves than the broken system we have now. If you are in public, and can buy a can of gas, chainsaw, or millions of other objects and tools that can be misused, then you can buy a gun.

 

[Boats]

The only problem with that philosophy is when Soros- funded DAs are recommending reduced sentencing or plea deals for violent criminals.

I agree that is the other side of the coin. I am all for a probationary period of 3-10 years where they cannot legally possess a firearm or ammo.

But if they are safe enough to be out of jail, then they should have their rights restored at some point. The tools at their disposal are largely irrelevant.

 

[Brychan]

If your not in jail, prison, psych ward, you have the right to self defense. If your a threat to society, you should be locked up or planted six feet. A firearm is a tool, if you can buy a knife, hammer, gasoline, a car any of which along a crap ton of other things can be used to kill, maim, rob, or other wise do harm, why should firearms be singled out.

 

[Blacksmith101]

I think the Supreme Court will come up with an answer with the current Rahimi and Range cases, and a couple more that are in the system already. My guess will be they will come up with a compromise that prohibits convicted violent offenders in some fashion while non violent offenders of malum prohibitum statutes will be able to legally posses firearms.

 

[MaxVO2]

What about a long kitchen knife or a baseball bat? Can he buy those other frequently used tools of murder? If so, no concerns about him using them?

****This is actually a really good point. A person who wants to murder or cause mayhem will not be deterred from doing so with other or whatever tools they have at their disposal, if a firearm is unavailable.

I don't have the link handy but I believe one of the greatest mass murders in our history was a person with a gas can who lit a big fire in a building and killed a LOT of innocent people.

 

[Doctor_M]

For non-violent offenders... I don't think I have a problem with this. For violent offenders... not so much. Yes, if they serve their debt to society, their rights should be restored. But has a murderer or rapist who gets a 30 yr sentence and serves 6-8 really paid their debt. Not in my book.

If they are free to walk the street, they are free to own a gun. Sure. But most of the folks who go through the revolving door SHOULD NOT be free to walk the street. Until we fix that, this clean slate stuff is premature.

 

[eruby]

If they are free to walk the street, they are free to own a gun. Sure. But most of the folks who go through the revolving door SHOULD NOT be free to walk the street. Until we fix that, this clean slate stuff is premature.

I hear ya Doc

Not the real world, so I'll amend it to 'if you're free to walk the streets, you're free to eat a crabcake'

 

[RFBfromDE]

I think the Supreme Court will come up with an answer with the current Rahimi and Range cases, and a couple more that are in the system already. My guess will be they will come up with a compromise that prohibits convicted violent offenders in some fashion while non violent offenders of malum prohibitum statutes will be able to legally posses firearms.

It would need to comply with their own Bruen standard.

Maybe there is such an analog.

 

[Boxcab]

The question that needs clarification is, " What is prison for?" Punishment, rehabilitation, just a time out?

It seems to me to be the last, a time out. Violent offenders and drug possession are effectively treated the same. Without capital punishment, everyone now gets a time out with cable TV and free room and board.

We need to reevaluate our justice system and make the punishment fit the crime.

It's a deep hole to go down, but our penal system is worthless at best, a criminal education system at worst.


.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[joppaj]

I'm voting for Boxcab for the next USSC vacancy.

 

[Doctor_M]

I hear ya Doc

Not the real world, so I'll amend it to 'if you're free to walk the streets, you're free to eat a crabcake'

Eating one right now brother. I'll have one in your honor too.

 

[alucard0822]

For non-violent offenders... I don't think I have a problem with this. For violent offenders... not so much. Yes, if they serve their debt to society, their rights should be restored. But has a murderer or rapist who gets a 30 yr sentence and serves 6-8 really paid their debt. Not in my book.

If they are free to walk the street, they are free to own a gun. Sure. But most of the folks who go through the revolving door SHOULD NOT be free to walk the street. Until we fix that, this clean slate stuff is premature.

Problem is the morons that run the system that lets murderers out in a few months, are the same morons coming up with more and more steps for the rest of us to legally buy a gun.

Currently if DOJ statistics are to be belived, 3% of the population commits 95% of all violent crime, and of those a mere 1% commit 63% of all violent crime.

The same morons letting murderers out in a few months are the ones pushing to make it harder for the rest of us to buy a gun legally. they have proven completely inept in keeping that small, but dangerous percent of the population from arming themselves, and perpetrating crime. Instead, it should be easy as possible for the peaceful 97% of the population to arm and protect themselves, and make life very dangerous for the 3% that preys on us.

 

[Blacksmith101]

It would need to comply with their own Bruen standard.

Maybe there is such an analog.

Violent offenders of malum in se statutes have been disarmed throughout history even literately back when drawn and quartered was still a punishment. It is the defining of a felon as convicted of any crime in any jurisdiction that the sentence could be over one year that collects all the Martha Stewart's and Bryan Range's.

"Do you intend to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm listed on this form and any continuation sheet (s) or ammunition in furtherance of any felony or other offense punishable by imprisonment for a term of more than one year, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking offense?"

 

[Biggfoot44]

There is a legitimate conversation here . That said , I think this Judge is playing Politico- Legal Chess here . I suspect he's trying to shock the conscience to lead to throwing out THT .


My take that I periodically express :

If they successfully complete the Entire Sentence , including any follow on Parole time , AND go for X years of no subsequent convictions, they should presumptive get Rights restored .

Recidivist Dirtbag , overwhelmingly Recidivate quickly and often . Stats generally show that after having kept clean +/- 7yrs after end of Supervision, they are no more likely to offend than the general public . For margin of error, I will start my conversation with 10 years clean after end of Supervision.