Clay Shooters are an "Interesting" Bunch

[Boondock Saint]

Fudds will Fudd, as always.

I suck at trap. I can miss clays just as easily with my 870 as they can with their nicer looking shotguns. In fact, within the last month I found myself at Loch Raven shooting trap in a full group. Three of them had very nice O/Us, and the other shooter had a brand new waterfowling SA. In the three rounds that we shot, I think I finished no worse than third on any round, and know that I won the first one.

As for the OP, a decent SA will soak up a good bit of recoil. A proper shooting stance and pad/vest should handle most of the rest. A 20 GA will be lighter and easier to handle, but may have more "felt" recoil than a heavier 12 GA, especially in SA. If she can physically handle/swing something heavy, that will help with felt recoil.

Good luck.

 

[trickg]

Fudds will Fudd, as always.

I suck at trap. I can miss clays just as easily with my 870 as they can with their nicer looking shotguns. In fact, within the last month I found myself at Loch Raven shooting trap in a full group. Three of them had very nice O/Us, and the other shooter had a brand new waterfowling SA. In the three rounds that we shot, I think I finished no worse than third on any round, and know that I won the first one.

As for the OP, a decent SA will soak up a good bit of recoil. A proper shooting stance and pad/vest should handle most of the rest. A 20 GA will be lighter and easier to handle, but may have more "felt" recoil than a heavier 12 GA, especially in SA. If she can physically handle/swing something heavy, that will help with felt recoil.

Good luck.

Facts!

The thing that got me started down this road was being invited to Loch Raven to go shoot with my Brother-in-law and some of the guys he knows. I grabbed the trusty ol' 870, because frankly it was that, or an old Model 12 that had belonged to Dad.

The first two rounds were pretty rough, but by the 4th round I was doing as well as anyone. I will say this though - that old rock-hard rubber recoil pad didn't do my shoulders any favors. I just installed a Limb Saver on it, and I'm curious to get it out again to see if that helps at all.

 

[jef955]

My thing with that gun is that I had a tough time with it - I'm hitting high teens to just over 20 with my shotgun, and I could only manage to hit 12 with that. She picked up Kyle's Browning BT-99 Micro Adjustable and knocked down 8 out of 10! I think in part it's because the gun is sized better for her, but it also had a tighter choke pattern and more shot to hit with.

I might also try a slip-on recoil boot for that Youth Model 20 ga - that would give it a bit more LOP, reduce felt recoil, and she might hit a little better.

In any case, it's a much less expensive option that what some of those oth' er folks on FB were suggesting!

I get exactly what you're looking to do, my wife is a "medical adventure" herself (70 surgeries or so - we think - lost count !), and if you're trying to figure things out on your own, instead of going and getting custom fit stocks etc right out of the gate, the majority of what you'll be doing is trial and error at this point. The good part is she gains shooting experience, figures out more of what SHE wants in a gun over time, and what works - or doesn't work comfortably for her. As far as we were batttling, my wife lost right hand function, has 17 fused vertebrae, along with skull base harware/decompression and a shunt, so her neck mobility is VERY limited compared to a normal person, along with some strength issues etc.. Look toward the long term goal, and you guys will get there down the road. Just takes time and money, but the satisfaction of getting her some SHE can use, and works well for her is well worth the headaches.

Magpul can be great options to "get her close" with their adjustability for rifles - I can't can't comment on shotguns because mine has never taken more than a few shots from a .410 - which she seemed ok with, but I would assume they are similar. She has a Magpul 10/22 stock, with the highest cheek weld and the closest mounts/rings to get her eye close to the scope (she has no neck movement) so that's worked well for her.

Handgun has been a tweaked Sig P320 carry with a Leupold red dot and a few extended controls that she can operate left/one handed. $1700 later, but it's worth it, when you both can run through your reloading routine together. We just use two single stage presses instead of a single whiz bang progressive It's not the fastest, but the looks you get in a gun store when you're parusing the reloading stuff, and you get "hey honey weren't we looking for (insert powder here) for those 9mm supressor loads" ? Priceless !

 

[JasonD67]

Couple of the best ways to reduce felt recoil is to 1) shoot lighter loads. 1 oz (or even 7/8 oz) loads for 12 gauge. 1 1/8 1300 fps loads will really thump you. Next, make the gun heavier. Add some barrel weights, then add a some weight to the stock to balance it. These are cheap and easy ways to reduce recoil.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Clay shooters definitely trend for the " have one good gun vs several regular guns " approach .

For mini.um recoil , a gas operated semiauto , as some have noted above .

Have to run , will continue later

 

[Blazer]

Might I suggest that you sign her up for a shooting lesson at PG. No matter the gun, if it doesn't fit you will perceive more recoil and not hit as many targets. There are women specific shotguns that address the fit issue. My field guns are much lighter than my dedicated Sporting Clays gun. I want my field guns light because i am carrying more than I'm shooting, plus the additional weight of shells, boots and hunting vest or jacket. Keep in mind this is for field hunting where you are on the move, not sitting in a duck blind or goose pit. My heaviest field gun weighs 6 pounds 7 ounces. My dedicated sporting clays gun weighs in excess 8 pounds. Serious trap shooters shoot well in excess of 5,000 rounds a year in competition, plus an untold amount in practice. I suspect that holds true for skeet and sporting clays as well. When I retired 8 years ago I splurged for a dedicated sporting clays gun. I have kept records of how many rounds I have put through it, and I'm at 14,000+. That is all casual shooting with my buddies, not serious competition. At the 12,000 mark I contacted the manufacturer about servicing it. The gunsmith asked if I was having problems, I wasn't, so he said first recommended service is after 30,000 rounds.
I have a friend who shoots a field grade SA Beretta, he has had to replace parts on it. I have no experience with dedicated target SAs, thus I doon't know how they hold up.

The suggestion to use 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads is also good. You don't need 1 1/8 ounces to break a clay.

 

[possumman]

Bring her out to one of the little Fish and Game clubs to shoot some sporting clays---Mayberry--Littlestown--Hopewell etc they will squad you up with people that will help-assist-advise etc nobody will make fun of you guys--however there will be a lot of talk and BS ing among the regulars in the group. Sporting is the most "social" of the shotgun sports--get some 7/8 or 1 oz reduced recoil shells-stick a soft pad on the butt of the gun and just shoot it---generally there are so few women shooting that she will be treated very well--

 

[JasonD67]

And trap shooters can be the most curmudgeonly of the clay shooters...

 

[trickg]

And trap shooters are the most curmudgeonly of the clay shooters...

Fortunately the group I've been hanging out with is a great group of folks. They've been nothing but friendly and helpful. Gear runs the gamut from inexpensive pump and break guns, to semi-autos, to Browning BT-99s, and one guy has a Caesar Guerini with a skeletonized adjustable stock. There's absolutely no pretentiousness in that group. They welcomed us like we were meant to be there, they have been super helpful when it comes to learning how to shoot and hit more consistently, and it's just a nice, friendly group of folks who I like to hang out with. I'm probably going to hit the trap range tonight to shoot under the lights as a matter of fact.

I think that, as much as anything else, is why I enjoy going out there.

 

[JasonD67]

Fortunately the group I've been hanging out with is a great group of folks. They've been nothing but friendly and helpful. Gear runs the gamut from inexpensive pump and break guns, to semi-autos, to Browning BT-99s, and one guy has a Caesar Guerini with a skeletonized adjustable stock. There's absolutely no pretentiousness in that group. They welcomed us like we were meant to be there, they have been super helpful when it comes to learning how to shoot and hit more consistently, and it's just a nice, friendly group of folks who I like to hang out with. I'm probably going to hit the trap range tonight to shoot under the lights as a matter of fact.

I think that, as much as anything else, is why I enjoy going out there.

I edited my post accordingly!

 

[trickg]

I edited my post accordingly!

I think you were generally pretty accurate! That group on Facebook....I went back and looked at some of the older posts where people asked questions and how those questions were "answered." WOW! Bunch of jerks is more like it! LOL!

Apparently even this group could be a bit curmudgeonly until one guy showed up, said, "Nope! We aren't doing that!" and injected a much more light-hearted attitude into things.

 

[Doco Overboard]

I think you were generally pretty accurate! That group on Facebook....I went back and looked at some of the older posts where people asked questions and how those questions were "answered." WOW! Bunch of jerks is more like it! LOL!

Apparently even this group could be a bit curmudgeonly until one guy showed up, said, "Nope! We aren't doing that!" and injected a much more light-hearted attitude into things.

Whats the group.
Is it called?
We dont talk about things like both hands in the same plane, splinter vs beavertail fore grip, what makes it so necessary to assume a par score like a golfer does to evaluate a round of trap, a choke bored shotgun develops more velocity than cylinder bore but I need more fps, what important details surround the thickness of the comb, + and minus of a straight grip vs pistol grip stock and why are single triggers better than double triggers between the two and so on.
How does some redneck with a m500 make me look continually stupid? Detraction's of poor etiquette and repercussions of trap line morale during the winter months. I have to continually check target average height 12' in front of the trap house or whatever the heck its supposed to be.
Did anyone see a chip? LOL
Sounds like a bunch of prigs.
Wonder if they'll let me join?

 

[Biggfoot44]

A 20 GA will be lighter and easier to handle, but may have more "felt" recoil than a heavier 12 GA, especially in SA. If she can physically handle/swing something heavy, that will help with felt recoil.

Good luck.

This is the sub topic I was going to come back to .

" Everything else equal " , a 20 will have less recoil than 12ga . But Everything is rarely equal . As Boondock above notes , gun weight is a major factor . A light in weight 20ga can overlap with a heavy- ish 12ga .

Which begs the related questions. For smaller stature shooters , is the primary issue the recoil per se , or the ease of handling / swinging / etc ?

Additionally, if the OP had a 12ga loading setup , he can load Extra Light 12 GA loads .

 

[JasonD67]

Additionally, if the OP had a 12ga loading setup , he can load Extra Light 12 GA loads .

Yes, this is a major benefit of reloading. Good luck trying to buy 1150 fps 7/8 oz 12 gauge shells.

 

[Cochise]

Yes, this is a major benefit of reloading. Good luck trying to buy 1150 fps 7/8 oz 12 gauge shells.

That's all I shoot at Clays my old damascus guns thank me. No recoil is an extra.
6500 psi is easy on the gun and is basically a light 20 gauge load.
In a heavy 12 or even a 10 with chamber inserts its a pleasure and will break any target on a trap or skeet field even handicap...

 

[trickg]

Whats the group.
Is it called?

The group on Facebook shows up as "CLAY TARGET SHOOTING."

The group at AGC doesn't have a specific name - a couple of folks are in the Old Post associated club. I don't know too many last names, but the main folks who are there are Jerry, Ed, Don, Kyle, Susan, Rick and Rob. Great group of folks and I really enjoy shooting with them.

This is the sub topic I was going to come back to .

"Everything else equal," a 20 will have less recoil than 12ga . But Everything is rarely equal . As Boondock above notes, gun weight is a major factor. A light in weight 20ga can overlap with a heavy- ish 12ga.

Which begs the related questions. For smaller stature shooters , is the primary issue the recoil per se , or the ease of handling / swinging / etc ?

Additionally, if the OP had a 12ga loading setup , he can load Extra Light 12 GA loads .

So the main issue isn't even perceived recoil. My wife can handle the shock of the gun. The issue is that she bruises VERY easily, and due to some prior health issues she's at risk for lymph edema on her left side, which is the side she shoots on.

I will say that the 20 ga she was shooting kicks about the same as my 12 ga Browning, but that Browning is a bit heavier than that 870 Youth Model.

As for reloading, I do have a reloading setup - I recently bought a used package that included a MEC 9000G, a few thousand hulls, a few thousand wads, a few thousand primers, some shot, and a little bit of powder. That thing can crank out shotshells pretty quickly - I loaded up 10 more boxes just last night.

What I don't have right now are 1 oz wads (well, technically I do have some - one bag is a bag of 1 oz wads, and I wonder if they weren't purchased on accident) or a 1 oz shot bar, but I have 10 bushings ranging from the mid-teens to the low 30s. It won't take long to get it set up to load 1 oz loads, and frankly, it'd be more economical on shot. I'll have to get a new shot bar ordered.

Yes, this is a major benefit of reloading. Good luck trying to buy 1150 fps 7/8 oz 12-gauge shells.

I'm not sure I'd go to a 7/8 oz load, but I'd definitely go to a 1 oz. From everything I've read there's not much downside to loading the lighter load. There are fewer pellets, but apparently the pattern distribution is the same, and breaks are just as consistent, all while offering less recoil.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Actually, this is almost two different things .

First is economic loads , that perform essentially similar to "standard " loads . i.e. 1 oz of #8 will have denser patterns than 1 1/8 oz of #7.5 .

Second is Really Light loads , where minimum recoil is the controlling parameter, even if some degree of less effective down range .

Did a Google for light shotshell load data , and the second hit included 12ga 3/4 oz , and 7/8 oz @ 980 fps .

 

[Cochise]

My go to load is an old style Winchester AA Hull (new or current hull works too but the crimp needs adjusting as they arent the same length)(if I use an STS pressure goes up a little but not enough to care) so or an STS hull no crimp adjustment.
7/8 oz shot (9 for skeet and 7 1/2 for trap or sporting) - I use a MEC bar so it is probably off a little - never weighed the shot on target loads.
A W209 Primer
A silver colored WAA12L wad or Claybuster clone
17 grains of Clays from a MEC 31 bushing
this is a published load at 6500 psi pressure which is super light and 1200 FPS
also not much to no recoil.

 

[Aamdskeetshooter]

Definitely go to 1 ounce loads loads at 1150 fps. You're not going to miss targets because of the 1/8 ounce difference. I know a lot of guys shooting 7/8 ounce 12 ga for the savings and lower recoil. I shoot 20ga all the time, but I shoot mostly skeet. I don't have an issue shooting trap with my 20ga though. I haven't checked prices in a long time, but an adjustable comb and buttplate shouldn't cost anywhere close to $3500. Even at a cost of $500 it's hard to justify if you don't know if she's all that interested in continuing to shoot. I shoot left handed since I'm left eye dominant. It's a pain to get a gun set up left handed. There's definitely a cost of entry problem with clay target shooting. It really helps your shooting if you get a gun that fits, but it's so expensive to have one set up if you're only going to shoot clays casually. The fact that she's petite and left handed only adds to the issue. Looking back at your post, I actually think the 870 youth gun is a good gun for her to shoot. The stock's straight so she can shoot it left-handed. It's shorter in length. Get a mod choke tube and buy light #8 shot shells and she can shoot trap or sporting with the mod or skeet with the IC. Don't the vests with the gel pads allow the pad to be removed? She could try the gel pad and if she doesn't like it, just remove it and use the vest by itself. Or just add a cloth pad. I could go on and on but that's enough for now. Good luck with whatever you decide. Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions regarding my post. I've really enjoyed shooting clay targets for 40+ years and have met a bunch of really good people.

 

[linkstate]

Hopefully I don't fall into the group that is demanding that you spend more than necessary. But once your wife finds 'her gun' and if she decides she likes shooting clays, as stated just above, adding a pad adjuster might be worth it especially for the female anatomy. You can raise and lower the pad and adjust the toe in and out, side to side as needed so as not to hit sensitive areas.