Carry Permit?

[Ethan83]

Dude, you really have no idea how to understand statistics, do you? The fact that you're so hung up on this population thing is riding a fine line between comical and sad.

From a dictionary, under 'rate': "a certain quantity or amount of one thing considered in relation to a unit of another thing and used as a standard or measure"

The crime statistics referenced in this thread - much like all crime statistics - are on a per-capita basis. As in, there are X number of shootings per y number of residents. Nobody else talks about these statistics in any other way, and I don't even know where you came up with the bizarre notion that we're only talking about fixed crime "values" and not crime rates. So yes, they have in fact made the point that the rate of shootings - how many people out of a fixed number of population ('per capita') for comparison purposes are shooting victims - is lower where more guns are carried.

 

[HardHatMan]

No, we will not get more CCW's because of pro gunners like you who do not present a good case to the anti-gun people. You stop at the only numbers you feel supports you case.

If your not smart enough to understand that when talking stats....And I only bring stats up because you brought them up first. That you are more likely to have a given person shot in a area that has 100.000.000 guns and a 100,000,000 people then in a area that only has 1000 guns and people.

When you present the case your trying to make here to the anti-gun people they will laugh at you because there is way more to it then just the numbers your posting when you what to talk statistics.



Even if everywhere in the US people could have CCW's and all the guns they wanted, you still could not compare the level of crime within a big city to the crime you will find in the county of some east BF state.

Please read Ethans post, above this post, regarding statistics. As a whole, shall issue states have a lower percentage of crime PER CAPITA. You say you would like to have a MD CCW, yet you support restrictions?

Not trying to be rude, but how old are you?

 

[Merlin]

In VA, open carry without a permit is perfectly legal, and NoVa is certainly close enough to DC, one of your supposed too-high-crime-to-trust-anyone cities. Richmond isn't exactly a small town either. No blood in the streets. Same in PA - well, except Philly, where there is blood in the streets...

Speaking of Philly,
Does anyone know anything about the outcome of that shooting a few months ago where the victim was carrying (without a CCW for whatever crazy reason). He was walking down the street with his girl friend when three men started to attack him? He had to shoot one of the three bullies before the three left him alone. The last I heard he was. arrested for not having the CCW and they were conducting a investigation on the shooting.

Anyone know the latest?

 

[Merlin]

Please read Ethans post, above this post, regarding statistics. As a whole, shall issue states have a lower percentage of crime PER CAPITA. You say you would like to have a MD CCW, yet you support restrictions?

Not trying to be rude, but how old are you?

53, and I'm very sorry because I missed your per capita statement. Please forgive me. Per capita conciders all of the number when making comparison.

 

[JMintzer]

Speaking of Philly,
Does anyone know anything about the outcome of that shooting a few months ago where the victim was carrying (without a CCW for whatever crazy reason). He was walking down the street with his girl friend when three men started to attack him? He had to shoot one of the three bullies before the three left him alone. The last I heard he was. arrested for not having the CCW and they were conducting a investigation on the shooting.

Anyone know the latest?

He had a valid CCW permit...

 

[swinokur]

Google Gerald Ung

 

[Merlin]

He had a valid CCW permit...

I thought I heard he did not have one? I thank he was connected with or near a college?

 

[Darkemp]

I thought I heard he did not have one? I thank he was connected with or near a college?

All the CCW charges were dropped, he wasn't on school property, he was in the streets of Filthadelphia carrying legally on a VA CCW. Major charges are Assault and Attempted 1st Degree Murder. Defense has requested a jury trial which is set to commence in February.

 

[Merlin]

All the CCW charges were dropped, he wasn't on school property, he was in the streets of Filthadelphia carrying legally on a VA CCW. Major charges are Assault and Attempted 1st Degree Murder. Defense has requested a jury trial which is set to commence in February.

February, why Does it take forever? I think I read the person shot comes from rich family. Most likely the politicians wanted to wait until after the elections.

 

[Merlin]

All the CCW charges were dropped, he wasn't on school property, he was in the streets of Filthadelphia carrying legally on a VA CCW. Major charges are Assault and Attempted 1st Degree Murder. Defense has requested a jury trial which is set to commence in February.

I can't imagine the worries that guy is going through. I hope he gets the right 12 people.

 

[Merlin]

All the CCW charges were dropped, he wasn't on school property, he was in the streets of Filthadelphia carrying legally on a VA CCW. Major charges are Assault and Attempted 1st Degree Murder. Defense has requested a jury trial which is set to commence in February.

I bet what happened is the local reporters covering this checked the local CCW list to determine if he had one. When they did not find him on the local PA list, they were reporting that he did not have one.

 

[Merlin]

All the CCW charges were dropped, he wasn't on school property, he was in the streets of Filthadelphia carrying legally on a VA CCW. Major charges are Assault and Attempted 1st Degree Murder. Defense has requested a jury trial which is set to commence in February.

You mentioned that he was not on school property, why is this important?

 

[HardHatMan]

You mentioned that he was not on school property, why is this important?

Most, if not all campuses, are gun-free zones. Rules like that give people like the VTech shooter the opportunity to slaughter the amount of people he did. Imagine if students were allowed to carry... How many lives do you think could of have saved if one student was able to stop him?

 

[Dead Eye]

Can you say why you were denied without getting personal?

Sorry for the delay, I've been "offline" for a minute. To answer your question, I was told that I did not meet the "good and substantial" clause.

 

[Merlin]

Sorry for the delay, I've been "offline" for a minute. To answer your question, I was told that I did not meet the "good and substantial" clause.

Does that have to do with the reason you want the ccw?

 

[Dead Eye]

Does that have to do with the reason you want the ccw?

No, I want the CCW because some knucklehead threatened me. The problem is that it was never documented, even though I asked for such. Since that time, because of where I live, I have had incident after incident dealing with knuckleheads, for which I have either been extremely: lucky, blessed, or fortunate. Unfortunately for me, however, the local LEO's have done a poor job at documentation. In the meantime, my threatening knucklehead got put back in the clinker for get this, ARMED ROBBERY! Also, adding to my personal situation, the overall general mood has gone to crap. I know that the MDSP could give a rats butt, then again, I shouldn't have to meet their standard of "percieved" or "apprehended" danger. They will tell you, they could give a rat's butt about the 2A, because on their mind it does not apply, here in MD.

 

[Mason-Dixon Baseball]

What do I get in return for supporting MSI? Are they like NRA where I get member benefits?

You get someone fighting for you in Annapolis! What do you want for ten bucks-- free heat seeking bullets?

 

[swinokur]

If you don't want to see your 2A rights eroded more and continued denial of your right to self defense when outside your home, then MSI is the ONLY state organization fighting for your rights. The NRA is to focused on national issues to really help us IMO. The antis running this state will seize every opportunity to attempt to take your freedom and liberty from you.

MSI is the only thing standing between patriots and the big government socialists running this state.

If you love freedom, it's the best 10 bucks you'll ever spend.

 

[ToneGrail]

I hear ya, but I also see you did not answer the question.

Also in reply to your comment on q#1.
Let me set this up for you... Your standing in the line where you pick up your CCW, and right behind you is your neighbor who know can't walk and chew gum at the same time. As well as you know spends 80% of his time drunk. As well as you know they are involved in some type of illegal activity that just hasn't been proven just yet. So he is not considered a criminal in the eyes of the law just yet because they official haven't got caught doing whatever they are doing to break the law.

As well as you happen to know he is a hot head who gets into fights often.

And your telling me a line should be drawn somewhere? That maybe...Just maybe this person should not have a CCW?

In your perfect world everyone, and I mean everyone who is not a criminal should have a CCW if they want?

Look I can tell you I have walked off of the gun range because of the Unsafe stupidly of some people who own guns. We will have to agree to disagree. What about retarded people? Don't they have the right to protect themselves? If your answer is no because of their abilities, then how do we measure where the retarded line is drawn.

I think when they determine if someone is retarded or not it has something to do with their IQ level. If this is so, would you suggest a person needs to be above a level of intelligence? Or should we just point at the second amendment and just say..."well it said everyone has the right so give them a gun".

The second amendment doesn't say anything about ducking behind anything after you give then their gun but you better do that on your own.

You're making the assumption that this "loser" will actually apply for a CCW to keep his ducks in a row. This is pure conjecture.

 

[ToneGrail]

I know it sounds like I'm defending the red tape and the law. But I'm not really. What I am doing is trying to point out there has to be some kind of system that will weed out some people who should not own a gun.

It is easy to just say the Second Amendment tells us everyone has the right to defend themselves, so just give guns to everyone. However if certain people are given guns the reason for the Second Amendment will be defeated because some people will be in more danger because they may live next door to, or driving next to someone who Just maybe are among the group that can't handle the responsibility of owning a gun. Or thay may not have the mental capacity.

I would like to see MD go to a system like PA. This is what PA does;

sheriff of the county in which they reside or if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city along with the required fee. If the PICS check is approved and the subject is of good character, the sheriff may issue a License to Carry Firearms. The issuance of a License to Carry Firearms allows individuals to carry a firearm concealed on or about their person, or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth. The license is valid for a period of five (5) years unless sooner revoked.


This to me is a system where they are trying to weed out some of the people who should not get a CCW because of how they may live their life or has shown a record of bad decision making history in their life.

Lets assume that every single person in the US are not the criminal type and they ALL can handle a gun responsibly. Where what I'm saying is not a issue.

Even if this is the case and we follow the Second Amendment to the letter because we want every single person to have the right to protect themselves.

OK, So that's how it is and you have the right to own your gun and take it everywhere you would like to. Now you have a child. When do you give your child their first gun to carry so they can be protected like you are and the Second Amendment tells us? When are you going to give your young son or daughter their first gun so they can do the same as you?

Clearley a young child does not have the wisdom to handle a gun. So when do they get this wisdom? When they are old enough to pull the trigger? Age 7, Age 12, age 16?

The Second Amendment tells us "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". Now it did not mention only if the people are over a given age. A 10 year old is considered part of the people.

But it would make perfect sense to anyone who does have the wisdom and is responsible enough to have a CCW that just maybe someone who is "to young" is not ready to own and carry a gun.

That being said, your taking it on your own to decide for others (in this case children) and no where in the Second Amendment does it tell you that you have that right.

But you know it's the right thing to do because giving a gun to a child who is not ready for it is defeating the intent of the Second Amendment because by giving them the gun before they are ready you have placed them danger.

So to any reasonable person in a world where anyone can have a CCW we will still draw the line at someone who is to young and not giving them a gun until the are old enough to make the right decisions with the gun.

Make sense so far?


Now when does a person have the maturity and is responsibility to have a CCW? At 15, or 16? Maybe the answer is 18? Id the answer is 18, or lets even say 21, do think that every 21 year old has the right stuff and should have a CCW when they turn 21?

Would it be fair to say the everyone matures at different rates and some kids have more then enough responsibility to handle a CCW where many still have not achieved enough and even though they may be 21, the are still on the childish side and are not ready?

I think many people can agree that just because you turn 21 yeas of age you are not automatically ready to have the responsibility that is needed for a CCW just yet.

If we can agree on that we are all making decisions for people only because we know we are doing the right thing to keep young people safe.

But no where in the Second Amendment does it tell us that we should use our on judgment on how to apply what the Second Amendment tells us.

If you do not agree with what I just said above I can only assume you think "The people" should follow the Second Amendment to the letter and that would mean giving a CCW to a child as soon as they get old enough to pull the trigger. Because no where in the Second Amendment does it tell people to use their own judgment on when you should give a gun to a person or at what age they should be. The Second Amendment just tells us to let us have the guns.

I say kids grow up different. Some kids mature very fast because they have parents who teach them responsibility from a very young age. Other parents not so much with the responsibility thing today.

I will also say I think some people NEVER grow up to the point where they should have a CCW.

The same could be said for some drivers. Do we prohibit them from obtaining licenses?