Can you load .38 bullets in a 9mm case?

[trickg]

Sorry to hear that. He sounds like a great guy. Mine too. Sorry for all of the aggrevation too.

Ok. My apologies for the aggravation coming from me as well.

Let's give this another shot. I think you and I are probably saying the same things but just coming to it from different approaches. I'm just trying to look at it from the practical standpoint that it can be done safely as long as certain factors are considered. That's really all I've been trying to say, and I do know a bit about what is involved.

 

[Flash]

30 grains of smokeless. The .30-30, or .30 WCF, was one of the first cartridges that was non-military that was designed specifically to use smokeless powder.

But I can see where you'd get that because for other popular cartridges of the time such as the .45-70 Govt or the .45-90, that's just what it meant - .45 caliber over 70 or 90 grains of black, respectively.

Yes you are correct. My bad. I am so used to making that distinction with the older cartridges.

 

[Warpspasm]

So how is Warspasm's 300gr 9mm project going?

Are you kidding me?? My new project has been watching these guys act like they want to kill each other, then kiss an make up! Like I've said a couple of times, I never intended to try it. I was just wondering if anybody else had heard of doing it. I guess you never can tell what will become controversial, eh?

 

[trickg]

Are you kidding me?? My new project has been watching these guys act like they want to kill each other, then kiss an make up! Like I've said a couple of times, I never intended to try it. I was just wondering if anybody else had heard of doing it. I guess you never can tell what will become controversial, eh?

I think that the anonymity of the Internet can sometimes foster a kind of behavior that likely wouldn't happen if we were face to face. Who knows - me and Dead Eye might even like each other if we had this discussion face to face.

 

[Dead Eye]

I think that the anonymity of the Internet can sometimes foster a kind of behavior that likely wouldn't happen if we were face to face. Who knows - me and Dead Eye might even like each other if we had this discussion face to face.

The unwritten word does not include emotions or expressions and often times is difficult to convey one's true meaning. As for Warspasms post about killing one another, that was never the case. Yes trickg, you just never know, besides that's what REAL MEN can do (admit their mistakes).

I truly understand what you are trying to say, in that with ANY machine component, their is a "variance" or standard manufacturing or machining tolerance, depending on how the object is fabricated. It could be die cast, which tends to be more repeatable, especially if each piece comes from a one cavity mold. If you manufacture with modern CNC machinery, again the tolerances are typically tighter, since the modern CNC's are VERY repeatable... That is what you are talking about, in terms of the variability from bullet to bullet.

What I was trying to get across, was the fact that not only would you have to take that factor into account, but you would also have to understand:

The bore of the barrel.

The interference fit, between the bullet and the barrel. With the barrel at its smallest size, and the bullet at its largest, thus the maximum amount of interference.

The heat developed based on the interference, the material of both the barrel and the bullet.

How much force, is behind the bullet, hence it's muzzle velocity based on the coefficient of friction as derived from above.

With the heat effect, how much is the bullet going to expand? The barrel?

How will that increase or deccrease the interference fit?

As it changes, it will also dynamically change all of the variables mentioned above.

In essence, one could theoretically calculate all of that, but a more accurate dynamic portrayal would require sensors, a lot of gadgetry, etc...

With all of that said, you have to make sure that the bullet doesn't develop so much friction that it stops in the barrel, and turns the barrel into a pipe bomb.

So, you can see that this would require quite a bit of knowledge and understanding, and I'm probably missing a variable or ten, not to mention a bit of luck to try this from scratch. I wouldn't, therefore, take someone's advice off the internet like, "Oh yeah, just grab a 9mm round throw it right on up in there, you'll be just fine".

In fact, if I was so inclined to try something like that, I'd still bench vise the firearm, and pull the trigger from a distance, with a string.

But that's just me.

 

[trickg]

Fair enough - but it can still be done - again, not something I would do, (something you and I definitely agree on) but people do it here and there and no one gets blown up.

I mentioned my Dad earlier in this thread. He was a prime example (IMO) of the quintessential hand loader. He did almost everything in triplicate when he was setting up a load. He checked, double checked, and then triple checked his components against the manual he used. He checked his brass for signs of stress and tossed any that didn't make the grade, he took into account the guns he was loading for, and he meticulously recorded everything - how many rounds, what bullet, what powder, how much powder, what primer, and the date the loads were made.

One thing he did not do was to do anything outside of any specs found in the various hand loading manuals and guides he used. After reading some articles in various gun publications where people did experimentation with hand loading (Elmer Keith was famous for that - he blew the top strap off of a Colt SAA .45 Colt by loading it too hot) I asked him if he did that. His reply was "no," and his reasoning was that if he felt he truly needed something more powerful than what was listed in the manuals for the guns he had, then he'd get a bigger gun. Don't get me wrong - I own his first year production S&W .44 Magnum that has digested more than it's fair share of heavy 250 gr cast Keith bullets loaded over 22 grains of #2400. That old gun did it's time - I currently load it with 9 gr of Unique over a 240 gr lead flat nose, and I shoot it pretty sparingly these days. At some point I'd like to retire it to a place of honor in the safe.

But, all of that aside, just because I follow my Dad's (and Dead Eye's) advice about loading only proper components for whatever load I'm loading, there are always going to be people who want to experiment, for whatever reason. Some would argue that it's dangerous. Others would argue that progress can't be made until someone does take a bit of a chance here or there.

I tend to think it's somewhere in the middle - do your homework, read the literature available, KNOW your equipment and components, and err on the side of caution, if all factors line up closely enough then the risk of putting together hand loads with .38 spc bullets in 9 mm cases is mitigated about as much as putting ANY hand load together, even with the right components.

Edit: Side note - when Elmer blew out the top strap on that .45 SAA, he was using .458 bullets intended for the 45-90/45-70, rather than .454 bullets intended for the Colt. Apparently he did this regularly, but as a young cowpoke, Elmer always liked to load pretty hot based on what I've read.

 

[Dead Eye]

Fair enough - but it can still be done - again, not something I would do, (something you and I definitely agree on) but people do it here and there and no one gets blown up.

I mentioned my Dad earlier in this thread. He was a prime example (IMO) of the quintessential hand loader. He did almost everything in triplicate when he was setting up a load. He checked, double checked, and then triple checked his components against the manual he used. He checked his brass for signs of stress and tossed any that didn't make the grade, he took into account the guns he was loading for, and he meticulously recorded everything - how many rounds, what bullet, what powder, how much powder, what primer, and the date the loads were made.

One thing he did not do was to do anything outside of any specs found in the various hand loading manuals and guides he used. After reading some articles in various gun publications where people did experimentation with hand loading (Elmer Keith was famous for that - he blew the top strap off of a Colt SAA .45 Colt by loading it too hot) I asked him if he did that. His reply was "no," and his reasoning was that if he felt he truly needed something more powerful than what was listed in the manuals for the guns he had, then he'd get a bigger gun. Don't get me wrong - I own his first year production S&W .44 Magnum that has digested more than it's fair share of heavy 250 gr cast Keith bullets loaded over 22 grains of #2400. That old gun did it's time - I currently load it with 9 gr of Unique over a 240 gr lead flat nose, and I shoot it pretty sparingly these days. At some point I'd like to retire it to a place of honor in the safe.

But, all of that aside, just because I follow my Dad's (and Dead Eye's) advice about loading only proper components for whatever load I'm loading, there are always going to be people who want to experiment, for whatever reason. Some would argue that it's dangerous. Others would argue that progress can't be made until someone does take a bit of a chance here or there.

I tend to think it's somewhere in the middle - do your homework, read the literature available, KNOW your equipment and components, and err on the side of caution, if all factors line up closely enough then the risk of putting together hand loads with .38 spc bullets in 9 mm cases is mitigated about as much as putting ANY hand load together, even with the right components.

Edit: Side note - when Elmer blew out the top strap on that .45 SAA, he was using .458 bullets intended for the 45-90/45-70, rather than .454 bullets intended for the Colt. Apparently he did this regularly, but as a young cowpoke, Elmer always liked to load pretty hot based on what I've read.

Nothing wrong with that process, you just described SCIENCE.