Can you load .38 bullets in a 9mm case?

[SCARCQB]

This thread is better than the 40SW thread.

 

[Wiley-X]

Regardless of how it got named, the .357 was a modification of the .38 design. .38's are measured by the nominal case diameter, whereas the .357 is measured by the projectile diameter, which is the same as the .38's projectile. They couldn't call them both the same thing.

Sez who? They could have called it whatever they wanted. Calling the .38 Long Colt a .38 and not a .36 was a marketing decision because a .36 would sound like a step down from a .38.

 

[Flash]

This thread is better than the 40SW thread.

Hey, i like the 40 S&W thread

 

[Dead Eye]

Sez who? They could have called it whatever they wanted. Calling the .38 Long Colt a .38 and not a .36 was a marketing decision because a .36 would sound like a step down from a .38.

.357 is also a step down from .38? But even calling a .357 Magnum a .38 Long is a differentiation. The point is, they couldn't just call them both just plain .38's, otherwise how would you know the difference?

The point I was attempting to make earlier is that both rounds have the same projectile and case diameter, the difference being the .357 has the longer case length. Actually, they broke tradition by naming it the .357 because it describes the projectile diameter rather than tradiitonally naming it after the case diameter. In keeping with tradition, they should have named it the .38 Long, or similar name.

Same with a .40 cal. It's a 10mm short. The only difference there is that Americans came up with it, so they stuck to their English measuring system. 10 mm converts to .3937", or rounded up to .40 cal. One could easily call it a 10 mm Short.

Similarly, NATO wound up with a 5.56 mm metric diameter, for the English .22 equivalent, and a 7.62 mm metric, for the English .308.

Since we are on the subject, it would be interesting to understand the history of the .308, since it breaks ranks with both fractional English sizes, and whole number metric sizes. I'm only speculating that it is based on a different standard? Wire size, perhaps? Does anyone have the history on the .300, 30/30, or .308 calibers as to how they came to be? Maybe for a different thread, but just curious.

 

[trickg]

Go away Troll Boy. I put my cards on the table. Besides, I'd rather go to an EMT that got trained in medicine, than the Post Office and have Trickg look at my splinter. Besides, I didn't give me the Engineer title, so I didn't misrepresent myself in any way. One of the largest electric components producing companies in the WORLD, however, decided to call me an Engineer, based on my demonstrated skills and abilities, from a practical application standpoint.

Again, where's your resume'?

You know, you're absolutely right - your experience in engineering MUST make you more knowledgeable about hand loading than anyone else in this thread.

I see you are still trying to bulldoze everyone else in this thread to prove to everyone that you obviously know more than they do, so I'll take my leave at this point, and I'll totally avoid any threads with you in them in the future, mainly because I took a look at your posting history and found that you are blowhard in pretty much all the threads you post in. I just don't have the time or energy to deal with an armchair expert about matters where they really don't know any more about the subject than I do.

 

[Wiley-X]

.357 is also a step down from .38?

But it's a MAGNUM so it's better.

The point is, they couldn't just call them both just plain .38's, otherwise how would you know the difference?

How do we tell the difference between

• .38 S&W
• .38 ACP
• .38 Super
• .38 Colt
• .38 Long Colt
• .38 S&W Special
• .38 WCF which is a .40

?

It's all in the words. If they had called it a .38 Magnum, no one would have been confused. In fact, a common British description for the .357 Magnum used to be the .38 Magnum

Actually, they broke tradition by naming it the .357 because it describes the projectile diameter rather than tradiitonally naming it after the case diameter.

Yeah, just like the .44 Special and the .44 Magnum.

Since we are on the subject, it would be interesting to understand the history of the .308, since it breaks ranks with both fractional English sizes

Groove diameter not land diameter.

 

[SCARCQB]

This Is why I stay with 9mm and 45ACP... Them assorted caliber selection freaks me out.

 

[Dead Eye]

You know, you're absolutely right - your experience in engineering MUST make you more knowledgeable about hand loading than anyone else in this thread.

I see you are still trying to bulldoze everyone else in this thread to prove to everyone that you obviously know more than they do, so I'll take my leave at this point, and I'll totally avoid any threads with you in them in the future, mainly because I took a look at your posting history and found that you are blowhard in pretty much all the threads you post in. I just don't have the time or energy to deal with an armchair expert about matters where they really don't know any more about the subject than I do.

Troll-g, I didn't try and bulldoze anyone intentionally. All I did, which happens quite a lot on this sight, even to me, is point out your inaccuracy in trying to describe something. It was pride and ego that then got steamrolled.

Unlike you, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in reloading, or this particular situation, and I tried to limit my comments to the area in which I DO have expertise in, and that is the manufacturing and design of machined components, for which, a firearm happens to be. That is why I CLEARLY stated, that even given my knowledge of such practices, I wouldn't touch this issue, but it requires someone with SPECIFIC expertise in this particular area alone. It's kinda like not going to an MD, but rather going to a heart surgeon.

And yes, (Hardhatman I apologize, and to other fine young men, who may be offended) I do have issue with the 20 something crowd that comes in here and want to start throwing the potty humor around like they're still back in high school and then want to start a "My Mom can kick your Dad's butt", peeing contest. Sad to say, but I have underwear older than you.

Let me guess 25, and still living in Mommy's basement?

 

[Dead Eye]

But it's a MAGNUM so it's better.

How do we tell the difference between

• .38 S&W
• .38 ACP
• .38 Super
• .38 Colt
• .38 Long Colt
• .38 S&W Special
• .38 WCF which is a .40

?

It's all in the words. If they had called it a .38 Magnum, no one would have been confused. In fact, a common British description for the .357 Magnum used to be the .38 Magnum

Yeah, just like the .44 Special and the .44 Magnum.

Since we are on the subject, it would be interesting to understand the history of the .308, since it breaks ranks with both fractional English sizes

Groove diameter not land diameter.

Out of curiosity, what defines a magnum? Is there such a thing? Or as you suggest, is it purely a marketing ploy?

I can understand the Brit thing, they were probably still trying to stick to traditional naming conventions before they went metric.

Was measuring the grooves the original measurement technique, or was the .30 cal in the same boat as the .357? In other words, what would a .30 cal measuring groove diameter, equate to in the more traditional shell case diameter?

 

[trickg]

Let me guess 25, and still living in Mommy's basement?

I'm 40, work as a senior level database administrator, have my own home, two cars, kids, etc. I grew up with guns and learned how to reload when I was in middle school from a Dad (LEO, competition marksman, gunsmith and gun "accumulator") who probably forgot more about it than you'll ever know. While that doesn't by any means make me the expert you seem to think I claimed to be, (which I didn't, by the way) it does give me enough hands-on practical knowledge to know what I'm talking about when it comes to reloading.

I tend to be pretty decent at whatever I set out to do, whether it's music - my first career of 10 years I spent as a premier military musician, my second career working in information technology, or whatever other task or body of knowledge I choose to pursue.

 

[Wiley-X]

This Is why I stay with 9mm and 45ACP... Them assorted caliber selection freaks me out.

Yeah, there's no confusion with the 9mm. 9mm Browning which can also be called 9mm Short, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz. Then we have the 9x18 which isn't quite the same as the 9mm Ultra, the 9 mm Largo, 9mm Browning Long, 9mm Glisenti, 9x21, 9x23 in both Largo and Steyr flavors, 9mm Mauser, 9mm Win Mag. Just confuse things there's the 9mm Federal revolver cartridge.

Almost forgot the 9mm Parabellum which is also called the 9mm Luger and the 9x19mm.

 

[Wiley-X]

Out of curiosity, what defines a magnum? Is there such a thing? Or as you suggest, is it purely a marketing ploy?

Generally it is a more powerful cartridge but there are no rules.

Was measuring the grooves the original measurement technique, or was the .30 cal in the same boat as the .357? In other words, what would a .30 cal measuring groove diameter, equate to in the more traditional shell case diameter?

I don't get where you go the idea that it is traditional to measure shell case diameter for caliber. That was just a couple types of cartridges.

.30-06 was a three tenths of an inch across the lands. 308 Winchester is measured across the grooves. Why? Because they could.

 

[Flash]

.357 is also a step down from .38? But even calling a .357 Magnum a .38 Long is a differentiation. The point is, they couldn't just call them both just plain .38's, otherwise how would you know the difference?

The point I was attempting to make earlier is that both rounds have the same projectile and case diameter, the difference being the .357 has the longer case length. Actually, they broke tradition by naming it the .357 because it describes the projectile diameter rather than tradiitonally naming it after the case diameter. In keeping with tradition, they should have named it the .38 Long, or similar name.

Same with a .40 cal. It's a 10mm short. The only difference there is that Americans came up with it, so they stuck to their English measuring system. 10 mm converts to .3937", or rounded up to .40 cal. One could easily call it a 10 mm Short.

Similarly, NATO wound up with a 5.56 mm metric diameter, for the English .22 equivalent, and a 7.62 mm metric, for the English .308.

Since we are on the subject, it would be interesting to understand the history of the .308, since it breaks ranks with both fractional English sizes, and whole number metric sizes. I'm only speculating that it is based on a different standard? Wire size, perhaps? Does anyone have the history on the .300, 30/30, or .308 calibers as to how they came to be? Maybe for a different thread, but just curious.

The 308 Winchester and 7.62x51 are spec'd differently therefore making them two different cartridges. The 30-30 was designed for the 1894 Winchester, 30 caliber bullet and 30 grains of black powder hence the two 30's.
The 300.......not too sure what you're refering to.

 

[Flash]

But it's a MAGNUM so it's better.



How do we tell the difference between

• .38 S&W
• .38 ACP
• .38 Super
• .38 Colt
• .38 Long Colt
• .38 S&W Special
• .38 WCF which is a .40

?

It's all in the words. If they had called it a .38 Magnum, no one would have been confused. In fact, a common British description for the .357 Magnum used to be the .38 Magnum



Yeah, just like the .44 Special and the .44 Magnum.



Groove diameter not land diameter.

Yes, the word magnum actually means bigger, better, greater etc.

 

[trickg]

The 308 Winchester and 7.62x51 are spec'd differently therefore making them two different cartridges. The 30-30 was designed for the 1894 Winchester, 30 caliber bullet and 30 grains of black powder hence the two 30's.
The 300.......not too sure what you're refering to.

30 grains of smokeless. The .30-30, or .30 WCF, was one of the first cartridges that was non-military that was designed specifically to use smokeless powder.

But I can see where you'd get that because for other popular cartridges of the time such as the .45-70 Govt or the .45-90, that's just what it meant - .45 caliber over 70 or 90 grains of black, respectively.

 

[Dead Eye]

I'm 40, work as a senior level database administrator, have my own home, two cars, kids, etc. I grew up with guns and learned how to reload when I was in middle school from a Dad (LEO, competition marksman, gunsmith and gun "accumulator") who probably forgot more about it than you'll ever know. While that doesn't by any means make me the expert you seem to think I claimed to be, (which I didn't, by the way) it does give me enough hands-on practical knowledge to know what I'm talking about when it comes to reloading.

I tend to be pretty decent at whatever I set out to do, whether it's music - my first career of 10 years I spent as a premier military musician, my second career working in information technology, or whatever other task or body of knowledge I choose to pursue.

So what you're saying is, if I want a straight answer, I should ask your Pop.

 

[Dead Eye]

Generally it is a more powerful cartridge but there are no rules.



I don't get where you go the idea that it is traditional to measure shell case diameter for caliber. That was just a couple types of cartridges.

.30-06 was a three tenths of an inch across the lands. 308 Winchester is measured across the grooves. Why? Because they could.

My point about the .30 series is that with most rounds, measured across shell casing, the grooves, the lands, wherever, they have commonly stuck to fractional English sizes

7/32" = .22 cal
1/4" = .25 cal
5/16" = .32 cal
3/8" = .38 cal
7/16" = .44 cal
1/2" = .50 cal.

The .30 cal doesn't quite fit the pattern. I was just curious as to why not?

 

[trickg]

So what you're saying is, if I want a straight answer, I should ask your Pop.

Might be a little difficult since he's dead.

 

[Dead Eye]

Might be a little difficult since he's dead.

Sorry to hear that. He sounds like a great guy. Mine too. Sorry for all of the aggrevation too.

 

[hvymax]

So how is Warspasm's 300gr 9mm project going?