Bound book and ATF F 5300.5

[j8064]

Folks, you're making this far more comlicated than it really is:

1) Bound book: Follow the guidelines in 27 CFR 478.121 and 478.125. That INCLUDES the use of a book permanently bound, a three ring binder with numbered pages or any method that produces "an orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages". The concept is not that difficult to grasp.

2) Format: Use the columnar format listed in § 478.125 using numbered pages. If you purchase a commercially available book, make sure it matches the format. You can set it up in Excel and print pages. Heck you can make a page with a pencil and ruler and make copies if you like as long as it follows the FORMAT!

If you plan to use a different format, get prior approval:
"A licensed dealer or licensed collector who proposes to use alternate records shall submit a letter application, in duplicate, to the Director of Industry Operations and shall describe the proposed alternate records and the need therefor. Such alternate records shall not be employed by the licensed dealer or licensed collector until approval in such regard is received from the Director of Industry Operations".

Like the bound book, the right format is not a difficult concept. Below is the proper format to use.

 

[G O B]

As i remember, 3 ring is OK -BUT, the pages must be numbered.

 

[FerroSynthKing]

I used this pdf (cruffler.com/boundbook2.pdf; which I think I got from the C&R sticky) to make an Excel file with the same dimensions, wordings, etc., a la j8064's image. I printed a bunch (like 200 pages), took it to Staples and had them bind it with a cover page with my C&R FFL# on it. It has more space than I should ever need.

 

[Machodoc]

www.type03.net/BoundBooks/Bound_Book.pdf

This is what I use for my C&R recording.

 

[Mdeng]

I stated in my original reply that it was my opinion. Section 478.105 just states that the record shall be maintained in bound form. It's the 'bound form' wording that I feel important. A dictionary defines 'bound' in the bookbinding sense as 'secured with a binding'. Secured. My OPINION is that is the intent of the BATFE to have the records secured by a binding to prevent the possiblity of alterations. I suspect even the BATFE is not stupid enough to give C & R licensees the opportunity to pull out/throw away pages from a 3-ring binder at our whim.

Regardless, do it however you like. Not wanting to deal with potential problems, I will stick to a bound book, that is, blank pages secured with a binding, those pages not being able to be removed without obvious detection (torn out).

Not only do they allow the use of a 3 ring binder they approve it. I was inspected last year. They found one error and allowed me to replace the page with an exact copy except for the corrected mistake. (I had the date format wrong, it would have made the seller 216 years old IIRC.) They found no other errors and were on their way.

Oh and I requested an off site meeting. They agreed and we met at a local coffed shop. You can only do this with a C&R license. Regular FFL's must be inspected on site.

 

[teratos]

Not only do they allow the use of a 3 ring binder they approve it. I was inspected last year. They found one error and allowed me to replace the page with an exact copy except for the corrected mistake. (I had the date format wrong, it would have made the seller 216 years old IIRC.) They found no other errors and were on their way.

Oh and I requested an off site meeting. They agreed and we met at a local coffed shop. You can only do this with a C&R license. Regular FFL's must be inspected on site.

So they really do inspect? Interesting, I was under the mistaken impression that it was something they never did (like checking out your Class 3 stuff). Not that I am concerned, my OCD ensures that I follow every rule to the letter......

 

[Mdeng]

So they really do inspect? Interesting, I was under the mistaken impression that it was something they never did (like checking out your Class 3 stuff). Not that I am concerned, my OCD ensures that I follow every rule to the letter......

Only once in 12 years. I suspect it was due to the large volume of sales I had that year. I was culling the heard.

I did not renew the license this year as I am working on other ventures that require funding.

 

[TreadNot]

www.type03.net/BoundBooks/Bound_Book.pdf

This is what I use for my C&R recording.

Same one as I use, but I edited it to keep only one entry per page, and I use that as a template I can pull up on the computer. I add two photos of the firearm, one overall view, and a close-up of the serial number. Yes, total overkill, but it looks nice, and my purchases are few and far between.

 

[matt_yamaha_guy_450]

i went on amazon.com and found one http://www.amazon.com/BookFactory®-...2&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=ffl+type+3+bound+book

 

[Bob A]

I use the 3-ring binder, but I have plastic sleeves for the pages. This gives me a place to put receipts and any other documentation that pertains to the items on the official page.

 

[j8064]

www.type03.net/BoundBooks/Bound_Book.pdf

This is what I use for my C&R recording.

Same one as I use, but I edited it to keep only one entry per page, and I use that as a template I can pull up on the computer. I add two photos of the firearm, one overall view, and a close-up of the serial number. Yes, total overkill, but it looks nice, and my purchases are few and far between.

Again, back to the notion of Format. That is a nice form. I originally used it. However it is NOT columnar and is NOT the correct format. There are folks on this and other forums who have used that format. When audited, they have been given the task to rewrite (in front of the auditor) all pages of their book into the approved columnar format depicted in the BATFE guidelines.

You can all do as you like. But, frankly, I prefer to enter my info once - and ONLY once - in the correct format.

 

[kalister1]

this is what I use

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=301997332

 

[Machodoc]

New Bound Book Form

Below is the reference made to the nature of a C&R Firearms Collectors Acquisition and Disposition Record (Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms § 478.125: Record of receipt and disposition):

The format is columnar and the examples are clear. Section H decribes the process required to obtain authorization to use a different format (i.e. electronic or some other method).

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.8.1.6&idno=27

After reading Joe's remark (again) several days ago, I decided that the PDF file I'd downloaded from the internet, and had been printing out to use in my bound book, was not quite what the feds specify (not all columnar).

So I finally got around to creating an Excel spreadsheet that can be printed and used as is, or can be used in Excel to record your entries and then printed. I can also easily put it into PDF format for those who don't have Excel. I'll be glad to share it with you guys if I can figure out how to make files of that sort available here. I'd especially like to get a copy to Joe to see what he thinks. There are limitations to how much you can cram onto one page, but I've got it all on the form and *think* there's enough room in the columns to record what needs to be there.

 

[lx1x]

After reading Joe's remark (again) several days ago, I decided that the PDF file I'd downloaded from the internet, and had been printing out to use in my bound book, was not quite what the feds specify (not all columnar).

So I finally got around to creating an Excel spreadsheet that can be printed and used as is, or can be used in Excel to record your entries and then printed. I can also easily put it into PDF format for those who don't have Excel. I'll be glad to share it with you guys if I can figure out how to make files of that sort available here. I'd especially like to get a copy to Joe to see what he thinks. There are limitations to how much you can cram onto one page, but I've got it all on the form and *think* there's enough room in the columns to record what needs to be there.

i personally want a copy.

i just sent my app monday.

 

[Machodoc]

Bound Book Format

** Update**

I've gone into the ATF records and have made this newest version identical in wording to what's specified in:
Title 27: ATF § 478.125(f)(2) Record of Receipt and Disposition, Firearms Collectors Acquisition and Disposition Record.

In addition, the format is totally columnar, as specified by the BATFE.

Here's where the trade-off comes in ... there's a lot of header info that's required to be put into a bunch of small columns, so I've given a generous amount of height to each column in order to have space to write in the information that you need to enter.* In order to make that happen, there's only room for 5 entries per page, but most of us ... except guys like Yellow Sled and Mawkie ... won't be filling up a new page every weekend. If you do, you can damned sure afford some more plastic sleeves for your binder.

Hope this turns out to be useful for some of you!

* There's nothing that says you can't enter info at an angle, if you need to.

====================================
Let's see if this works. Hopefully there will be an image file that shows how the column headings look (for some reason, not all of the lines that mark the columns down the page showed when I converted this to an image, but they are there when you see it in Excel, and when you print it).

I'm also attempting to make the Excel file available, and this posting editor makes it look like that should be possible. In any case, assuming that this works, let me have some feedback and I'll tweak it as necessary (and possible).

[Excel file modified/improved 01:00 - Sept. 9, 2012]

 

[h2u]

Count me as another for buying a complete book from Amazon.
I'm of the school that if you treat the process as professionally as possible, the agent that checks out your book will see this and give you the same respect.
I'll climb into my flame suit as I type this, but I think 3-ring binders reek of bush league. TOTALLY legal, but not how I'd expect someone who holds a Federal license to comply. Again, I wouldn't judge anyone for it. I personally want to do the best I can because the agents can make your life miserable-just with first impressions....kinda like why you wear a suit to court. Not because it's required, but because it shows respect for the court officials that can take one look at you and judge before even hearing you speak

 

[Machodoc]

Count me as another for buying a complete book from Amazon.
[...]
I'll climb into my flame suit as I type this, but I think 3-ring binders reek of bush league. TOTALLY legal, but not how I'd expect someone who holds a Federal license to comply.
[...]

No flames from me. Everyone has their own way of doing things, and to each his own.

However, I think that my own 3-ring binder looks as "professional" as a book from Amazon, and I can make more professional looking corrections to errors with my approach. My binder has page-holding plastic inserts in it, plus pockets inside both covers for receipts, photos, or whatever other documentation I want--including a copy of my 03FFL. Plus, if I want to, I can type all of my entries into the spreadsheet, rather than writing them by hand, and that looks even neater and more "professional" to me.

A 3-ring binder doesn't have to look like it just came out of a middle-school boy's backpack. My load data book from Sierra is in a 3-ring binder, and it doesn't look amateurish to me. I think that "professional" is more related to how you present your information, rather then how much you spend on a book, etc. After all, you could buy the most expensive book you can find, then scribble in it, cross out a bunch of stuff, etc., and it still wouldn't have a "professional" look.

Again, though, it's up to personal preference. I'm just trying to come up with a nearly-free, professional-looking, and BATFE-correct alternative for those who don't want to buy a book (or want to get something going before a book order can get to them).

 

[h2u]

No flames from me. Everyone has their own way of doing things, and to each his own.

However, I think that my own 3-ring binder looks as "professional" as a book from Amazon, and I can make more professional looking corrections to errors with my approach. My binder has page-holding plastic inserts in it, plus pockets inside both covers for receipts, photos, or whatever other documentation I want--including a copy of my 03FFL. Plus, if I want to, I can type all of my entries into the spreadsheet, rather than writing them by hand, and that looks even neater and more "professional" to me.

A 3-ring binder doesn't have to look like it just came out of a middle-school boy's backpack. My load data book from Sierra is in a 3-ring binder, and it doesn't look amateurish to me. I think that "professional" is more related to how you present your information, rather then how much you spend on a book, etc. After all, you could buy the most expensive book you can find, then scribble in it, cross out a bunch of stuff, etc., and it still wouldn't have a "professional" look.

Again, though, it's up to personal preference. I'm just trying to come up with a nearly-free, professional-looking, and BATFE-correct alternative for those who don't want to buy a book (or want to get something going before a book order can get to them).

100% agree with you and you explained it much better than me!

 

[j8064]

Let's see if this works. Hopefully there will be an image file that shows how the column headings look (for some reason, not all of the lines that mark the columns down the page showed when I converted this to an image, but they are there when you see it in Excel, and when you print it).

I'm also attempting to make the Excel file available, and this posting editor makes it look like that should be possible. In any case, assuming that this works, let me have some feedback and I'll tweak it as necessary (and possible).

[Excel file modified/improved 12:53 - Sept. 8, 2012]

That's columnar and the correct format!

It's very similar to this one:

 

[Threeband]

None of those yield anything printable for me.
I would love to find something that works and can be printed.

That last one, I can get on the screen, but what actually prints is only a partial rendering of blank boxes. The only text is a blurb across the top about "times new roman blah blah". It prints on two pages (last two columns on the second page).

Below is a scan of the first page. Obviously less than useless. I might as well get a pencil and straightedge and draw my own boxes, then xerox it. Either that or go on using that same "non-columnar" form I and everybody else has been using for years.

I am not a computer person. All I do is the internet, e-mail, and store photos. The only word processor I use is the default basic "Word Pad" thing. If that won't do what I want, I get out my manual typewriter.

Is there any blank form that prints one one page, that I can xerox and fill in by hand?