Bound book and ATF F 5300.5

[StillServing]

Seems like I've been reading alot about what poeple are using as thier "bound book" Anybody just using the ATF F 5300.5 form from thier site and keeping it in a three ring binder? I'm made my first purchase ( a Hex receiver Mosin) and want to make sure my bound book is ready when it arrives.

 

[Kelson1066]

This is what I use I put a stack in my 3 ring binder along with copies of my 03FFL and DD214 (just in case I want to by a C&R from a local shop)
It may be overkill but I put the pages in document protectors. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Docster]

I'm pretty sure the idea of a "bound book" excludes a 3-ring binder or any method that allows pages to be removed. A bound book has non-removeable pages-thats what the law requires

 

[bbrown]

You can get an exemption from the BATFE to keep your records in a 3-ring binder. I've never felt comfortable with that option myself.

Bryan

 

[kalister1]

I thought the EXCEPTION was for ELECTRONIC copies?

 

[rseymorejr]

I just use a common old composition notebook. Divided it up into columns and was good to go.

 

[j8064]

I'm pretty sure the idea of a "bound book" excludes a 3-ring binder or any method that allows pages to be removed. A bound book has non-removeable pages-thats what the law requires

Docster, would you care to cite the specific code that defines a "bound book" as not having the ability to have it's pages removed? A three ring binder does exactly what its name implies: it "binds".

Below is the reference made to the nature of a C&R Firearms Collectors Acquisition and Disposition Record (Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms § 478.125: Record of receipt and disposition):

The format is columnar and the examples are clear. Section H decribes the process required to obtain authorization to use a different format (i.e. electronic or some other method).

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.8.1.6&idno=27

 

[TyFromMD]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-records-required.html

Defines a bound book. It indicates an orderly arrangement of loose leaf paper.

 

[j8064]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-records-required.html

Defines a bound book. It indicates an orderly arrangement of loose leaf pape.

There you go...that's what a 3 ring binder successfully does.

"A “bound book” is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages which must be maintained on the business premises. The format must follow that prescribed in the regulations, and the pages must be numbered consecutively."

 

[sbmike]

I keep mine in a three-ring binder on the form I downloaded from the ATF website along with a copy of the receipt I got from the seller (I haven't found a reason to sell any of my small collection yet ). My take is that they want C&R transactions separated from other types of transactions that can be viewed by an ATF agent if necessary. My take is that the ATF wants to be able to look in one place at the purchases and sales you have made using the C&R license. It just didn't make sense to me that ATF would supply a downloadable form along with a sample loose form with the literature I got when I got the license and then have to have the sheet(s) bound in some fashion. Just my take.

 

[kazan182]

Bound book & Computer Program...

I also used a bound book from the site below. It's huge but allows me lots of space for entering info and keeps me from hunting down a pair of glasses.

http://www.firearmsrecordbooks.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Firearms-Record-Book

I also use a computer database for my entire collection. It's MyGunDB, the CMP edition. I guess they get a few bucks with registration. It has some limitations but I like the idea of placing images of my weapons to an entry. They have a mobile version (I think just andriod) and since it's Adobe AIR runs on apple and PC.

http://cmp.mygundb.com/

 

[Docster]

I stated in my original reply that it was my opinion. Section 478.105 just states that the record shall be maintained in bound form. It's the 'bound form' wording that I feel important. A dictionary defines 'bound' in the bookbinding sense as 'secured with a binding'. Secured. My OPINION is that is the intent of the BATFE to have the records secured by a binding to prevent the possiblity of alterations. I suspect even the BATFE is not stupid enough to give C & R licensees the opportunity to pull out/throw away pages from a 3-ring binder at our whim.

Regardless, do it however you like. Not wanting to deal with potential problems, I will stick to a bound book, that is, blank pages secured with a binding, those pages not being able to be removed without obvious detection (torn out).

 

[kalister1]

What you say makes sense.
BUT: Even if you use a real Bound Book, what is to stop you from having a dozen Bound Books and trash the entire book and starting over with a new book instead of just ripping out a few pages?
If you want to cheat the system it's not really that hard, it's the whole going to jail thing that keeps me honest.

 

[Docster]

Docster, would you care to cite the specific code that defines a "bound book" as not having the ability to have it's pages removed? A three ring binder does exactly what its name implies: it "binds".

Below is the reference made to the nature of a C&R Firearms Collectors Acquisition and Disposition Record (Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms § 478.125: Record of receipt and disposition):

The format is columnar and the examples are clear. Section H decribes the process required to obtain authorization to use a different format (i.e. electronic or some other method).

http://ecfr.gpoacess.gov/cgi/t/text...8; &view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.8.1.6&idno=27

What you are referring to here is the FORMAT of the entries; there is a recommended format as to how to document entries for all C & R purchases. We are free to use any format as long as it includes all the basic and required information. The format is not related to a 'bound book' which is the physical item in which the gun inventory is kept in whatever format is acceptable by the BATFE

 

[eruby]

I'm a google-fu chump but there have been posts on MDS where C&R holders here have been visited by ATF and the problem ATF had was not with the 3 ring binder, but with the format of the pages in the binder.

Maybe different agents might have a beef with a 3 ring binder, but a few members here had no problem with it in their ATF visit.

 

[Docster]

Good to hear that. Personally I'm sticking with the lithographers definition of bound book to play it safe. The format minimums are outlined in the ATF regs that accompanied the license. As long as BATF is happy, that's all that matters

 

[Machodoc]

OOops! Should have read through the whole thread before posting.

I'm pretty sure the idea of a "bound book" excludes a 3-ring binder or any method that allows pages to be removed. A bound book has non-removeable pages-thats what the law requires

Not so. I just had this discussion with a friend, and I should have bet him a case of beer on it.

"A “bound book” is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages which must be maintained on the business premises. The format must follow that prescribed in the regulations, and the pages must be numbered consecutively."
[27 CFR 478.121 and 478.125]

 

[StillServing]

my original intent of the question was to the format/info on the page. I agree 100% that a 3 ring binder is acceptable, hell as far as that goes, pages stapled together are bound. And actually, it says bound OR orderly arranged. so you could argue that they don't even have to be stapled together. As far as easily tearing out pages, isn't that why they have to be numbered? if you tear out a page, then the numbers are not in order anymore.

Who likes that format/arrangement of info on the originally cited ATF Form?

 

[Sundazes]

I just paid the couple of bucks and bought the one from Brownells. No fuss no muss, no question if it is valid....

 

[StillServing]

So........is the info any different from what's on the ATF Form linked in the original post?