Bizarre Things Taught in HQL Class

[molonlabe]

In defense of the NRA its purpose is, to introduce people to firearms. I learned to shoot in the military. (My air guns as a kid don't count) been shooting and reloading since the 70' and yes I was veted by the training counselor. I get tired of people putting down NRA instructors. Over the years I have participated in almost every WOT that Roxan gave at AGC until I got sick from chemo. I had some AH at a gun show challenge me about my skills in gun fighting because I was wearing my instructors hat. I walked away from him, that is not the purpose of the courses. I teach to bring new people into our hobby and perhaps to turn the tide regarding gun control. I haven't been in a gunfight since the late 60's and I hope I never will be but I am prepared to handle myself. Even the defense in the home teaches to retreat into a safety room. The difference between cover and concealment etc. if you want tactical training there are places to get it. I tell the people I train they must keep their skill up. After a year on Chemo I went shooting with my wife and all my shots were within the plate and I think my wife hit it once and that started the basics all over again. That's the difference between experience and a newly learned diminished skill. So not all NRA instructors are dopes.

I just read the tread about the mis information in the gun world. Just go to YouTube
I have a friend, marine in combat action up on the DMZ and landed in Denang when the war ramped up. He once told me that the Viet cong could chamber our rounds in an AK but we could not chamber theirs. I don't know where that rumor started but I heard it before. I didn't laugh at him ridicule him, I educated him. I have too much respect for my fellow vets to do that.

 

[molonlabe]

It's not the instructors job to tell you what he or she thinks. Opinions mean nothing. The instructors should present the information for the given class. Period. The instructors I know in Fairfax are top notch. Dave K. is excellent.

this.

 

[lx1x]

It's one thing to hear the BS from someone like me, a nobody in a gun shop. It seems like a whole another level of stupidity to hear it from state qualified people who are supposed to be teaching (correct) material.

I realize our IP's are some of the best instructors but it appears some of their "fellow instructors" in the same industry are dropping the ball big time.

I didn't realize there was a firearm law part of the HQL class? I thought it was just in person video/web series training like we all did years ago.

You cant blame the good instructors for bad ones stupidity. we dont have control over that.

There are a lot of quick buck instructors out there.. I agree 100%.

Law part is one of the required portion. The video training is long gone but doesn't mean that others stop using it as part of their training as visual aid to teach certain portion of qhl training.

 

[dist1646]

IMHO, there seem to be a number of "instructors" who's sole qualification to be an instructor is nothing more than a scrap of paper. Qualified individuals instructing in order to help others is one thing. Using that "scrap of paper" for personal profit and disseminating wrong information while helping the state support a law that is unconstitutional is quite another.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

You cant blame the good instructors for bad ones stupidity. we dont have control over that.

There are a lot of quick buck instructors out there.. I agree 100%.

Law part is one of the required portion. The video training is long gone but doesn't mean that others stop using it as part of their training as visual aid to teach certain portion of qhl training.

Not blaming you guys. It would make sick if I was an instructor and hearing about other guys (not here) flunking out bad on something so simple as the HQL class is.

How can anyone honestly tell a class they can't transport guns in a pickup truck? I know, second hand "he said/she said" but I don't have reason to believe it's not true. The person that said couldn't have been that stupid, anyone can print out MD firearm laws and read it word for word and understand that it says nothing about a pickup truck.

 

[Mark75H]

I believe there are other acrediting organizations that MSPLD accepts, don't lay all of this at the feet of NRA.

Also, some of the worst offenders have "impeccable" credentials far beyond NRA

 

[marko12]

So, when you hear these myths in class do you say something or just smirk and let it go ?

 

[myright]

My friend just took the HQL course last Saturday taught by a retired LEO and I couldn't stop laughing at the stuff this individual was rambling about in his class.

"Without this class, I guarantee at least half of you would shoot someone accidentally at some point in your life time."

That had me almost in tears. Apparently she vomited a lot of other overly dramatic garbage as well throughout the 4 hours of the class. He also told me the different things she demonstrated to the class and many of them were incorrect.

He said he felt he learned a lot and wants to take more classes at this shop. I told him he's doomed. He paid far too much for misinformation, it definitely wasn't WORTH the money spent.

My first thought.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

So, when you hear these myths in class do you say something or just smirk and let it go ?

I'd definitely say something, especially over the "can't transport guns in a pickup truck." I'd be that jag'hoff who printed out copies of the law and asked where that part was.

I'd guess the interaction would go "I've been doing this for xyz amount of years, I'll give your money back and you can leave" something like that, or they would just gawk at you with their mouth open.

 

[gmharle]

I have heard a lot of people that think the same thing about transporting in a pickup. I can see how some might interpret it that way. That being said, there is now way that a certified instructor should be spreading misinformation.

Personally, I would like to see an online course. That way everyone would get the same instruction. And there would be no spread of nonsense.

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

The gun industry is polluted by Bubba - at least that's how it seems most of the time.

Bubba behind the counter.
Bubba in front of the counter.
Bubba yapping, telling gun equivalents of fish stories to anyone who will listen, "ah bin gittin half-inch groups at 300 yards wit' da AR ah bilt!"
Bubba in quivering anger and barely contained rage while giving testimony at gun legislation hearings, complete with mossy oak camo jacket and matching hat.
Bubba is the guy the liberals like to refer to as a "gun nut."

Don't get me wrong - Bubba is usually a great guy who would give you the shirt off his back, or bust his tail in countless other ways to help out a person in need, but right now Bubba is the face of the gun industry to those who are outside of it, and we have an image problem.

Having Bubba NRA instructors babbling misinformation at HQL training classes is not going to help the issue either. We need to do better.

This is one of the reasons NRA is moving to the on-line 'blended learning' for their classes. Not that I am a fan of this move, I understand the reasoning based on several incidents where NRA instructors were arrested for misrepresentation of giving classes and issuing certificates for students which were later used to obtain carry permits or firearm purchase permits.

 

[SRD]

I'd definitely say something, especially over the "can't transport guns in a pickup truck." I'd be that jag'hoff who printed out copies of the law and asked where that part was.

I'd guess the interaction would go "I've been doing this for xyz amount of years, I'll give your money back and you can leave" something like that, or they would just gawk at you with their mouth open.

Not directly related to HQL training but not every instructor or LEO knows every thing so I keep a folder in all of my vehicles with just about every transport law and/or opinion (MD and FOPA) just in case.

 

[TTMD]

Most reputable instructors will begin the law portion by telling the student that regardless of what they hear in the class, THEY, not the instructor, are responsible & accountable for knowing & following the law. Then the instructor will show & tell the student where & how to find the relevant laws, & then review some of the biggies by showing the law (actual law article) & discussing what it means in real life (e.g., unloaded guns in cases, back & forth to the range or dog show, etc.) but only as reflected in the actual law. Then the instructor will end the law portion by reiterating that the student alone is responsible for knowing & obeying the relevant laws.

If the instructor goes off the deep end or in some way tries to turn hql trng into combat or swat trng, then free market forces - word of mouth - should take care of the problem. If people are afraid to name the instructors who are doing it wrong, then the problem will persist.

Keep in mind that the only reason any of this exists in the first place is to infringe upon people's right to bear arms. The law was written to be obtuse & confusing & to cause turmoil. The goal was & remains for people to decide that the pain of getting a gun is more than the pain of not having one.

Should people be required to be trained? Absolutely not. Should people know how to safely use firearms? Of course, & there are a number of ways that adults & children alike can go from novice to safe. But in this country, government mandated training should not be one of those ways. Few government mandated programs ever go away. The more we institutionalize hql training (again, an infringement against a Constitutional right), the more we are helping maintain that infringenemt.

Personally I don't think formalizing a training plan is a good idea. You want to share your curriculum, that's great. Many of us in my training team have done just that, & I think we have one of the stronger efforts around. But to encourage any level of mandated oversight of mandated training beyond naming the bad instructors is just a bad idea.

 

[RonK]

My friend just took the HQL course last Saturday taught by a retired LEO and I couldn't stop laughing at the stuff this individual was rambling about in his class.

"Without this class, I guarantee at least half of you would shoot someone accidentally at some point in your life time."

That had me almost in tears. Apparently she vomited a lot of other overly dramatic garbage as well throughout the 4 hours of the class. He also told me the different things she demonstrated to the class and many of them were incorrect.

He said he felt he learned a lot and wants to take more classes at this shop. I told him he's doomed. He paid far too much for misinformation, it definitely wasn't WORTH the money spent.

If this is the same individual that taught my hql class last year... we were told not one person out of the 40 there cleared the test pistol safely and that we were a danger to ourselves and others without further training. For myself I can say I was/am a noob and had already lined up FIRST and Basic Pistol courses (not just there). I'm also certain that I kept the training gun oriented on the 'safe' wall and I'm certain there were a few people there that were old hands and probably took some offense. There were some people there I hope would not considering arming themselves without a lot more help.
Personally I recognized the salesmanship of the class (selling additional classes) was about equal to the useful information. The place was convenient because they did the class, live scan, and the online application in 4hrs. And the only place that had a class that fit my schedule for 3 months around that time.
Not positive it's the same shop but figured it was worth a shot to guess it was the same.

 

[scouse]

If this is the same individual that taught my hql class last year... we were told not one person out of the 40 there cleared the test pistol safely and that we were a danger to ourselves and others without further training. For myself I can say I was/am a noob and had already lined up FIRST and Basic Pistol courses (not just there). I'm also certain that I kept the training gun oriented on the 'safe' wall and I'm certain there were a few people there that were old hands and probably took some offense. There were some people there I hope would not considering arming themselves without a lot more help.
Personally I recognized the salesmanship of the class (selling additional classes) was about equal to the useful information. The place was convenient because they did the class, live scan, and the online application in 4hrs. And the only place that had a class that fit my schedule for 3 months around that time.
Not positive it's the same shop but figured it was worth a shot to guess it was the same.

I had a similar experience - paid a lot of money. He was fine, she was not - in many ways. Not Worth it.

 

[d33rhunt3r]

Friend of mine heard the DC letter line as well in his HQL course he took a few months ago. The absolute scariest thing he heard from the instructor though is that

"you can carry an unloaded firearm on your person and it is not considered CCW. Until you load it, you are not breaking the law."

WUT

 

[molonlabe]

Are you allowed to record these classes?

 

[TTMD]

People are going to continue giving out bad information until those telling these stories name names.

 

[HordesOfKailas]

People are going to continue giving out bad information until those telling these stories name names.

^ If anyone browses this site looking for HQL course info, it'd be good for them to see a list of places that are taking their money and disseminating misinformation. Doesn't help the 2A community any to be tight lipped about it.