Best Ak47 for ~$500

[bean93x]

No way its possible to do it that fast. If I rushed it would take me 4 hours to do a Saiga 7.62x39 Saiga Conversion

Heres average times involved to do a Saiga 7.62 Fixed Stock Conversion without converting th handguard/retainer.

Weld the FCG Holes Up, Mill, and Blend (1 HRS)
Remove the Mag Catch and Cut Down, Reinstall and Flare Pin (30 MINS)
Rivet On New Trigger Guard (30MINS)
Remove FSB/CUT off Nose and Reonstall with Crosspins (1 HRS)
Thread Barrel 14/1 LH in Lathe with Jig (1 HRS)
Weld In Bullet Guide and countour welds (30 MINS)
Prep and Refinish the Barreled Receiver (2 HRS)
Polish Contact Surfaces (30 MINS)
Tune Safety Tab/Contact Points/Detent (15 MINS)

whats the usual run around $ for a saiga to full blown "ak47" conversion?

 

[clandestine]

whats the usual run around $ for a saiga to full blown "ak47" conversion?

Its not worth it IMO to do it right. I charge $400 to do what I listed and thats just labor. After buying a FCG, Stock Set, Trigger Guard, Bullet Guide, Muzzle Device. Add the price of the base gun and your WAY over what an Arsenal Costs.

 

[Nemesis]

No way its possible to do it that fast. If I rushed it would take me 4 hours to do a Saiga 7.62x39 Conversion

Heres average times involved to do a Saiga 7.62 Fixed Stock Conversion without converting the handguard/retainer.

Weld the FCG Holes Up, Mill, and Blend (1 HRS)
Remove the Mag Catch and Cut Down, Reinstall and Flare Pin (30 MINS)
Rivet On New Trigger Guard (30MINS)
Remove FSB/CUT off Nose and Reonstall with Crosspins (1 HRS)
Thread Barrel 14/1 LH in Lathe with Jig (1 HRS)
Weld In Bullet Guide and countour welds (30 MINS)
Prep and Refinish the Barreled Receiver (2 HRS)
Polish Contact Surfaces (30 MINS)
Tune Safety Tab/Contact Points/Detent (15 MINS)

Well no f'n shit it takes 4 hours to do all that...doing the pistol grip conversion only takes about 30 mins bud...which is clearly what i was talking about.

 

[AwesomeBill]

No way its possible to do it that fast. If I rushed it would take me 4 hours to do a Saiga 7.62x39 Conversion

Heres average times involved to do a Saiga 7.62 Fixed Stock Conversion without converting the handguard/retainer.

Weld the FCG Holes Up, Mill, and Blend (1 HRS)
Remove the Mag Catch and Cut Down, Reinstall and Flare Pin (30 MINS)
Rivet On New Trigger Guard (30MINS)
Remove FSB/CUT off Nose and Reonstall with Crosspins (1 HRS)
Thread Barrel 14/1 LH in Lathe with Jig (1 HRS)
Weld In Bullet Guide and countour welds (30 MINS)
Prep and Refinish the Barreled Receiver (2 HRS)
Polish Contact Surfaces (30 MINS)
Tune Safety Tab/Contact Points/Detent (15 MINS)

Wow..... I just used some double-sided sticky tape and Elmers glue. And that piece of popsicle stick for a bullet guide. I think you're just making this too hard on yourself. Are you sure you know what you're doing?

 

[clandestine]

Wow..... I just used some double-sided sticky tape and Elmers glue. And that piece of popsicle stick for a bullet guide. I think you're just making this too hard on yourself. Are you sure you know what you're doing?

I have no idea, I just google everything I type and act like I know it.

 

[Grrrr]

I was in the same boat about 6 months ago. Ive never been an ak guy but got the urge to have one. Looked at all of my options and did a bunch of research. Originally the arsenal was more than i wanted to spend but i had read too many good reviews. So i saved a little more and got an sgl. Great shooter wih zero issues to date. Granted i only have about 2k rounds through it at this pointbut so far so good. Im happy with my purchase.

***clandenstine, why is it that i can read 20 stories of people buying saigas and fully converting them for way cheaper than an arsenal. just internet bs talk? And thats an honest question. Im not doubting what you say. Just a guy looking for honest answers. Thx

 

[clandestine]

I was in the same boat about 6 months ago. Ive never been an ak guy but got the urge to have one. Looked at all of my options and did a bunch of research. Originally the arsenal was more than i wanted to spend but i had read too many good reviews. So i saved a little more and got an sgl. Great shooter wih zero issues to date. Granted i only have about 2k rounds through it at this pointbut so far so good. Im happy with my purchase.

***clandenstine, why is it that i can read 20 stories of people buying saigas and fully converting them for way cheaper than an arsenal. just internet bs talk? And thats an honest question. Im not doubting what you say. Just a guy looking for honest answers. Thx

Just do the math.

Unconverted Arsenal is what $350-$400?

Converted Arsenal is what $750-$850?

Add a Tapco FCG $35.00
Add Arsenal Stock Set $110.00
Add Grip Screw and Bushing $10.00
Add Bullet Guide $30.00
Add Handguard Retainer $50.00
Add Gas Tube $30.00
Add AK100 Muzzle Device $60.00
Add Trigger Guard and Rivets $15.00
Add AK100 Series FSB $75.00

So parts add up to $400.00-$425.00 with shipping on those parts and thats without labor to convert it so it dont look like a chainsawed-swiss AK (Full of Holes and Dremel Marks). Im sure there are more budgeted kits but Im talking about doing a correct conversion thats also 922r compliant. So you end up with $700 into a Unconverted Saiga and thats not counting labor. For about $50 more you have a professionally built AK that dose not have a Screw in Bullet Guide and Clamp-On Trigger Guard/Handguard Retainer.

Out of every 50 Converted Saigas I see maybe 1 or 2 actually look like the person knew what they were doing.

Try and sell a home converted Saiga and you wont get anywhere close to what a factory converted Saiga gets.

 

[AwesomeBill]

Well sure, you could just buy the Converted Arsenal and save money while getting a better end product. But you'd miss out on all the "fun" of doing the conversion in your living room with a dremel and some files!

All kidding aside, I am glad i did the saiga conversions that i did. I sure as hell learned the innards of an AK. But now that I've done some, I doubt I'll do any more. One of those return on investment things.

Of course, I built my first AR (with professional help of course) instead of buying one pre-built. I guess I just like jumping into the deep end while pretending that I'm saving money.

 

[clandestine]

Well sure, you could just buy the Converted Arsenal and save money while getting a better end product. But you'd miss out on all the "fun" of doing the conversion in your living room with a dremel and some files!

All kidding aside, I am glad i did the saiga conversions that i did. I sure as hell learned the innards of an AK. But now that I've done some, I doubt I'll do any more. One of those return on investment things.

Of course, I built my first AR (with professional help of course) instead of buying one pre-built. I guess I just like jumping into the deep end while pretending that I'm saving money.

You did likely did save and learn doing your Saiga Conversions dont look like hacked up automobile wrecks.

I overlooked the learning issue in my post, but again you actually learned while many other people Im referring to "learn" that paying a smith saves them in the long run because fixing hacked up parts always costts more than taking it to the smith off the bat.

 

[Grrrr]

Just do the math.

Unconverted Arsenal is what $350-$400?

Converted Arsenal is what $750-$850?

Add a Tapco FCG $35.00
Add Arsenal Stock Set $110.00
Add Grip Screw and Bushing $10.00
Add Bullet Guide $30.00
Add Handguard Retainer $50.00
Add Gas Tube $30.00
Add AK100 Muzzle Device $60.00
Add Trigger Guard and Rivets $15.00
Add AK100 Series FSB $75.00

So parts add up to $400.00-$425.00 with shipping on those parts and thats without labor to convert it so it dont look like a chainsawed-swiss AK (Full of Holes and Dremel Marks). Im sure there are more budgeted kits but Im talking about doing a correct conversion thats also 922r compliant. So you end up with $700 into a Unconverted Saiga and thats not counting labor. For about $50 more you have a professionally built AK that dose not have a Screw in Bullet Guide and Clamp-On Trigger Guard/Handguard Retainer.

Out of every 50 Converted Saigas I see maybe 1 or 2 actually look like the person knew what they were doing.

Try and sell a home converted Saiga and you wont get anywhere close to what a factory converted Saiga gets.

ive never really looked too hard into the actual cost of converting one. ive just read how "cheap" it always is. thank you for the break down of what the actual cost would be. more power to those that have the desire to convert their own. its just not for me. maybe im in the minority but $800 for a quality arsenal just doesnt seem that bad.

 

[futureseabee]

threads like this are pointless. The OP asks for advice, gets it and then totally ignores it. The "best for $xx.xx" threads always turn out this way.

I didnt totally ignore it. I asked for someone to convince me I didn't want a Wasr. I cant stomach an arsonal right now, and I dont really want to spend as much as it would take for me to do a saiga conversion the right way. I didn't have my heart set. the gun i bought was in very good condition.
i have been swayed towards something one way or another before by a thread like this.
the wasr was the best for my money, and some in this thread even helped that decision, but if calling me out for wasting bandwidth helps you sleep at night be my guest

The OP also broke the rules. He didn't take any pictures of what he bought.

stupid merlin 8 day wait.... and i had it on layaway. if all goes according to plan ill have it on saturday

 

[Scott7891]

I'll take the barrel life argument but to suggest that AK barrels without chrome lining shouldn't be counted on for more than plinking is nonsense. I'd put money that those inferior century AKs would be floating around in working condition for a lot longer than they should if SHTF. If I'm wrong you Arsenal guys can make sure to take a break from pumping thousands of rounds into wasteland raiders and say I told you so in your best Lord Humungus voice.

There is a reason every country that adopted the AK used hammer forged chrome lined barrels (except Yugoslavia/Iraq because of the small amount of chromium they had, but their barrels were still hammer forged and their ammo was brass). Wasn't because it was cheaper because you are talking about Communists/Socialists who built these things and you know how they love to cut corners and generally crap out on quality. It is because they will last a long, long time compared to bare metal barrels that many U.S. builders use from Green Mountain (because it is cheaper). Again you must have missed what I said when I posted this:

Try taking your bare metal barrel, the same barrels that Century and other mass-built U.S. barrel makers use in their builds which are not hammer forged or chrome-lined mind you. Shoot a bunch of rounds out of it at a time, I mean rapid fire as fast as you can and do this for thousands of rounds. Don't even think of cleaning the barrel, because if you are in a SHTF you might not have time to have the luxury to clean your gun. See how much throat erosion and damage to the barrel one sees. It will be horrendous. Hell even Clandestine said that for AK's that non-chrome lined barrels are not as reliable as ones that are since most combloc ammo is steel cased. The chrome acts as a sort of lubricant in extracting and loading rounds.

A member on here did a test that compared the factory hammer forged barrel with a Century junk barrel. After shooting 5,000 rounds out of both the factory barrel still looked great and ready to keep on trucking. The Century barrel was already showing signs of extreme wear.

I am sorry but if anyone thinks a bare metal Green Mountain barrel is the equal or superior to a factory AK barrel is a fool and knows nothing about AK's. Like I said, if you are using your AK just as a plinker with those barrels then yes you will be fine, but in the long run especially if you shoot a lot they will wear out way faster than factory barrels.

I was in the same boat about 6 months ago. Ive never been an ak guy but got the urge to have one. Looked at all of my options and did a bunch of research. Originally the arsenal was more than i wanted to spend but i had read too many good reviews. So i saved a little more and got an sgl. Great shooter wih zero issues to date. Granted i only have about 2k rounds through it at this pointbut so far so good. Im happy with my purchase.

***clandenstine, why is it that i can read 20 stories of people buying saigas and fully converting them for way cheaper than an arsenal. just internet bs talk? And thats an honest question. Im not doubting what you say. Just a guy looking for honest answers. Thx

Clandestine pretty much summed it up but I also want to add that a lot of people who say they do "conversions" don't go full on like Arsenal does it. A lot of people just switch out the trigger, get new furniture, get a bullet guide to take normal mags, and call it a day. Nothing wrong with doing your own conversion but Arsenal charges the amount it does for a reason since they go a lot further than the standard conversion most people do.

 

[kcd]

J&G Sales has a Saiga conversion for $520. http://www.jgsales.com/saiga-7.62x39-converted-ak-style-rifle,-new.-p-6540.html It has a good review and the pics look good.

 

[This One Goes To Eleven]

There is a reason every country that adopted the AK used hammer forged chrome lined barrels (except Yugoslavia/Iraq because of the small amount of chromium they had, but their barrels were still hammer forged and their ammo was brass). Wasn't because it was cheaper because you are talking about Communists/Socialists who built these things and you know how they love to cut corners and generally crap out on quality. It is because they will last a long, long time compared to bare metal barrels that many U.S. builders use from Green Mountain (because it is cheaper). Again you must have missed what I said when I posted this:

I'm not saying the American barrels are on the same level. Yes it is widely accepted that chrome lining improves barrel life. I'm saying that just because an AK lacks a CLB doesn't mean its only use is as a range toy.

The Commies aren't using their rifles in the same way as most gun owning Americans. With the addition of a happy switch the importance of chrome lining becomes much greater. Unfortunately, all we really have is a 7.62x39 semi-automatic sporting rifle. The stresses these rifles are undergoing aren't anywhere near that of their counterparts around the world. I would imagine the average American owned AK sees stresses more in line with a certain 30-06 semi automatic rifle that has been floating around by the thousands for 60 years.(Not quite the same but still)

I'm not trying to go against the experts on this forum but sometimes one can get so knowledgeable in a subject their standards get inflated and "If it is not X it is shit" develops.

 

[krashmania]

I just bought a saiga, (should be in next week), and I know for what I'll spend "converting" it, I probably could have bought one already done, but I bought this to be my project. There are some parts I will have assistance with, like moving the fcg(how much would you charge for that chad?), and probably barrel threading. But the main reason, is I want to be able to say that it was my gun, and that I learned it all myself.

 

[clandestine]

I just bought a saiga, (should be in next week), and I know for what I'll spend "converting" it, I probably could have bought one already done, but I bought this to be my project. There are some parts I will have assistance with, like moving the fcg(how much would you charge for that chad?), and probably barrel threading. But the main reason, is I want to be able to say that it was my gun, and that I learned it all myself.

At this point Im only accepting full conversion work. All of my Saiga Conversions are $400 labor. That includes everything in my list on the previous page. This does not include barrel chop work or RH sside folder work. .

In the past when I offered partial conversion work it turned into a mess because when people went behind me to do things they wanted to try at home they just made a mess of things. I only do full conversion work now.

Unless its a S12 its jist too costly to pay me to do the work. I would sell the saiga and buy an Arsenal if I were you.

 

[AwesomeBill]

I just bought a saiga, (should be in next week), and I know for what I'll spend "converting" it, I probably could have bought one already done, but I bought this to be my project. There are some parts I will have assistance with, like moving the fcg(how much would you charge for that chad?), and probably barrel threading. But the main reason, is I want to be able to say that it was my gun, and that I learned it all myself.

Moving the FCG can actually be done with just a drill. Some of the saigas have the needed holes already cut into the bottom of the receiver. You just need to drill out the 3 or so rivets that hold on the "sporter" plate to the bottom of the receiver. Now, some don't have the holes pre-cut, so then it would be time to pull out the dremel and a file. However, you can just pop the dustcover off and peek inside to see if yours has the holes ready to go.

Just saying that the FCG move can actually be rather easy. And unlike barrel threading, doesn't require special tools.

The end result will not be as nice as having it done by a pro, but it will certainly work.

 

[erwos]

Personal opinion: there's a lot that can go wrong with the bullet guide install, which is why I've never personally tried to do a conversion on a Saiga rifle. I don't think the pricing on K-Var's converted Saigas is bad, given that you're getting a good product with good backing.

OTOH, Chad is talking about a primo conversion, whereas there's a significant percentage of people who don't care about using cheap ugly Tapco furniture, having open rivet holes, "incorrect" sights, threaded barrels, etc.

 

[krashmania]

Well, luckily, I'm getting the 5.45, and with combloc mags, that doesn't need the bullet guide.

 

[Nemesis]

I just bought a saiga, (should be in next week), and I know for what I'll spend "converting" it, I probably could have bought one already done, but I bought this to be my project. There are some parts I will have assistance with, like moving the fcg(how much would you charge for that chad?), and probably barrel threading. But the main reason, is I want to be able to say that it was my gun, and that I learned it all myself.

My offer still stands if you are imterested. Again...i dont charge, i just enjoy working on them. Just bring the rifle and parts.