Beat to death: AK vs. AR

[Russ D]

So PSL type rifles are basically accurized AK's right? How accurate are they?

 

[clandestine]

So PSL type rifles are basically accurized AK's right? How accurate are they?

Depends on the rifle.

My last PSL shot 1MOA till about the 30 round count, then would start to string vertically. I did alot to accurize it though. Out of the box it was 4MOA.

I have a new one that I have shortened the barrel on (14" with Perm 14/1 AK YHM Q.D. Mount to make it 16.25"), and put on a side folder recoil reducing M4 Enindine Tube, and a Try Battle Axe Buttstock. RSA Trigger, Cyro Treated Barrel. Custom Floated Handguards, Unitized Gas Tube....

I wanted to make a backpack type PSL thats still accurate to be a DMR type weapon.

Im still decidint on the scope, but its almost done. Its getting ceracoted at the moment.

 

[SCARCQB]

So PSL type rifles are basically accurized AK's right? How accurate are they?

Typical groups are about 1.2-1.5" with surplus bulgarian( light ball) steel cased ammo. I came across a small quantity of What I think was Russian 7N1 sniper ammo.. that was about 1". If it heats up... 3-4 MOA. Put pressure on the long barrel with a bipod- 5MOA

While the M1A shoots <1" with surplus malaysian ball ammo

 

[Nemesis]

Typical groups are about 1.2-1.5" with surplus bulgarian( light ball) steel cased ammo. I came across a small quantity of What I think was Russian 7N1 sniper ammo.. that was about 1". If it heats up... 3-4 MOA. Put pressure on the long barrel with a bipod- 5MOA

While the M1A shoots <1" with surplus malaysian ball ammo

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f19/saiga-308-accuracy-not-bad-ak-18599/

saiga .308 accuracy report.

 

[haoleboy]

When Carlos Hathcock was stalking the other sniper in Vietnam, what likely is the weapon they were using?
Hathcock was using a M14 right?

 

[Nemesis]

When Carlos Hathcock was stalking the other sniper in Vietnam, what likely is the weapon they were using?
Hathcock was using a M14 right?

no, remington 700 mod'd to a m40a1

here is a picture of carlos with his m40a1

 

[Jimbob2.0]

Want to beat an ak to death send it to century for repairs

 

[Phoenix_55]

Alright so we will each shoot our rifles for the intrinsic accuracy, and bench them as well in a mechanical vice. Does anybody have such a device that they could bring to the range that day?

 

[Nemesis]

here is something interesting i came across...guy took a stevens 200 and had a barrel custom made for it with a .308 bore chambered for 7.62x39...

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-361106.html

quite interesting.

 

[JOBU]

Okay....

The winner of the test will shoot against my Mini-14 using 55 grain Barnaul ammo.

Amen, brother. Now you're talking!

 

[Biggfoot44]

While the USMC was transitionining to the M40 (Rem 700 ) as standard weapon at the time , Hathcock continued to use his Win M70 .

As to the origional comparison concept : It will have to be multi part. Wolf vs Wolf . If either party has a different MilSpec- ish round they prefer , they can do also. Match or handload vs Match / handload. So far all using iron sights. If desired each shooter can then do groups with optics and best/ prefered load. Then switch shooters to use the best combination of the other's rifle .

I have yet to even read about an AK design matching what I Know my stock Colt Sporster does out of the box.

That said , I conceed that a good shooting AK will overlap into lower average AR accurracy. And that an AK will shoot minute of enemy combatant after taking more abuse than a rental truck.

 

[04RWon]

My other offer still stands for using my M1S 20in rifle. Ill throw the a2 stock back on, ill even put the original bcg back in if need be. Its a 20in non chrome lined 1x9 heavy barrel.

I say we try putting an optic on an ak as well. If they say an ak's sights bring it down, why not throw an aimpoint, eotech, or any magnified optic. Use same optics on each rifle. I mean, if an ak enters a carbine course, match, 3-gun, whatever, id imagine he would have a red dot atleast. It makes sense.

As for ammo, try steel case, try match grade, but dont count out the common, somewhat cheap remington umc or something similar.

I also agree both or however many shooters have to shoot both weapons. We need more than just 2 testers because, and this is nothing against anyone, but the results could come out bias.

 

[haoleboy]

You guys must have misunderstood. What rifle was the Vietnamese sniper using? What was/is their most accurate weapon?

 

[jawn]

You guys must have misunderstood. What rifle was the Vietnamese sniper using? What was/is their most accurate weapon?

It probably was a Mosin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[sandbanger]

You guys must have misunderstood. What rifle was the Vietnamese sniper using? What was/is their most accurate weapon?

I bet some had our weapons/

Remember it was a guerrilla war

 

[Phoenix_55]

My other offer still stands for using my M1S 20in rifle. Ill throw the a2 stock back on, ill even put the original bcg back in if need be. Its a 20in non chrome lined 1x9 heavy barrel.

I say we try putting an optic on an ak as well. If they say an ak's sights bring it down, why not throw an aimpoint, eotech, or any magnified optic. Use same optics on each rifle. I mean, if an ak enters a carbine course, match, 3-gun, whatever, id imagine he would have a red dot atleast. It makes sense.

As for ammo, try steel case, try match grade, but dont count out the common, somewhat cheap remington umc or something similar.

I also agree both or however many shooters have to shoot both weapons. We need more than just 2 testers because, and this is nothing against anyone, but the results could come out bias.

That sounds good. We have an Aimpoint available for the test but no optics. We also will get some shelf ammo from Dick's or similar in addition to the ammo already listed. If you are indeed joining us on the range day send me a PM.

 

[KMK1862]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the results of this test.

I think ya'll should use as close to military spec rifles as you can. Ammo should be the same, as close to mil spec as you can get.

 

[04RWon]

That sounds good. We have an Aimpoint available for the test but no optics. We also will get some shelf ammo from Dick's or similar in addition to the ammo already listed. If you are indeed joining us on the range day send me a PM.

Im not sure just yet. If it could be done in central md i could be 100% sure. If you could put that aimpoint on the ak id put my strikefire against it. 4 moa dots in each.

 

[Nemesis]

Im not sure just yet. If it could be done in central md i could be 100% sure. If you could put that aimpoint on the ak id put my strikefire against it. 4 moa dots in each.

my aimpoint is a 2moa dot. we've been planning this weekend for 2 months now, the grove is only 5 minutes from my house and we have a lot of plans what with shooting and grilling and such...and ultimately, even though we will be testing the accuracy of out two guns, this weekend is about fun, not competition.

this thought crossed my mind last night...there are two stereotypes that both AR fans and AK fans are always trying to combat...for the AR, it is that they are not jamaholics, and are actually very reliable and durable platforms...for the AK it is that they are not just inaccurate minute-of-barn rifles, and are actually capable of putting down decent groups. at the end of the day, regardless of what anyone does it will never change these stereotypes...there are alot of people who have proven accuracy with the AK platform, and there are alot of people who have proven the dependability of the AR...but after all of it...the AR still locks up at the sight of sand and dirt, and the AK can hit anything, as long as it is within 100 yards and the size of a school bus.

 

[SCARCQB]

It probably was a Mosin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

It was a Mosin with a PU scope.. However, it is unclear which country of origin. Most say it's of Russian manufacture.

Hatchcock also used a Winchester M70 in 30-06 with an 8X unertle scope. Most of his kills were done with this.. Not the M1a/ M14 set-up similar to that of what SA armory sells as the " White feather" M1A.