BCM 's new ultra light rifles

[ObsceneJesster]

I'll pass. I like my ARs like my women, front heavy.

Just kidding. Hopefully, these are stronger than the Fortis rails.

Unlike Fortis, BCM didn't remove a crap ton of material in order to shave off ounces. They innovated by using a different material and the rail itself has been in use for the past 6 months by some of the best in the industry. I'm sure they were told to abuse it and test it for weakness.

Either way you cut it, BCM wouldn't risk one of the best reputations in the industry over a few ounces. We all know how quick a reputation can be lost in this industry and all it takes is one bad product. At this point, we should just assume BCM knows what their doing and will only release top notch products. They don't need to produce gimick products like hollowed out AFG's and VFG's.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

eh...ill pass...its not like a normal ar is heavy to begin with, making them featherweights is just kinda silly to me...but thats just me i guess

Why is innovating with a lighter rifle silly? I can think of more than a couple scenarios where a lighter rifle would benefit the shooter. Yea, it might not be beneficial if all you do is sandbag.

 

[Nemesis]

Why is innovating with a lighter rifle silly? I can think of more than a couple scenarios where a lighter rifle would benefit the shooter. Yea, it might not be beneficial if all you do is sandbag.

such as? we are talking what...a pound on the generous side in terms of weight shaved total? i would also guess that is with a standard carbine buffer (no h2 or h3) and obviously a bare bone rifle...but lets just go with it.

less weight = less recoil dampening = more dependency on a compensator to keep the muzzle on target. comps have drawbacks, mainly flash (though some are better than others) and noise...thats the big one.

i would really rather not be in a group of 3-5 guys all running 14.5s w/ loud ass comps, thats going to make life a living hell. flash hiders are bad enough, but comps take the little 556 to a whole new level of muzzle blast.

as far as carrying the rifle, does anyone else know what a sling is? its a really awesome invention...when you are loaded up with even a modest, fairly light weight loadout a pound or so off of your rifle (that still needs optics and such so its just going to get heavier anyway) is nothing to write home about...its the difference of a mag or no mag...really not much.

as far as BCM goes, using the new alloy is awesome...anything that can help improve the strength and dependability of your weapon is good in my eyes...however making a rifle as light as possible for the sake of just being light is, well, silly...to me its like fortis making those grip looking things (they really are terrible looking, i wouldnt really call them grips as-per-say)...

 

[armed ferret]

Others say moving to a state where they think magazines are single use items is silly. Yet still people do it, because it's their choice.

 

[Nemesis]

Others say moving to a state where they think magazines are single use items is silly. Yet still people do it, because it's their choice.

perhaps...but considering that 2 people were kick out, and their working on getting rid of the mag limit seems like their making up for it...

at least i could go out right now and buy anything i want and walk out with it, while carrying...ill take that over MD any day lol

edit: hey, for those who plan on picking one up...good for you, im sure you will enjoy it...im just saying that, in my opinion, its just silly to buy a rifle because it will be 10-15%(depending, could even be less) or so lighter than a normal ar once you add a mag and optics...

 

[vinjet700]

The pics are from a distributor over in the M4Carbine forums.

Very kool.... Thanx

 

[ObsceneJesster]

As pictured, this rifle with a 13" rail is 6 pounds 5 ounces. That's with optics and a 30 round mag.

 

[Terphunter]

That thing is sweet! This new rail came out JUST before i pulled the trigger on a BCM with Vtac rail (which i love btw)...really considered it but waiting any longer to get the ball rolling was not an option.

Plus im not the type to be the FIRST one with something...like to have to reviews from non BCM reviewers....never know...

 

[niftyvt]

As pictured, this rifle with a 13" rail is 6 pounds 5 ounces. That's with optics and a 30 round mag.

Thats sweet. Must get one just cause. . . except with a surefire brake.

And just ignore Nemesis, he just hates on anything that isnt a 5+ year old quad rail and weights 15+ pounds.

I want my rifle as light as possible for the same reason I want my backpacking gear as light as possible. Ti pot -2oz, smaller stove set up, -2oz, better pack -6oz, better tent -10oz etc. After a while I have taken 5-10 pounds off my back and after 20+ miles in one day in mountainous terrain Im supper happy I paid to get that 10 pounds off my back.

 

[Guderian]

perhaps...but considering that 2 people were kick out, and their working on getting rid of the mag limit seems like their making up for it...

at least i could go out right now and buy anything i want and walk out with it, while carrying...ill take that over MD any day lol

edit: hey, for those who plan on picking one up...good for you, im sure you will enjoy it...im just saying that, in my opinion, its just silly to buy a rifle because it will be 10-15%(depending, could even be less) or so lighter than a normal ar once you add a mag and optics...

I don't know man. I have a 6920 and 6720, among others, and the pound makes a difference on how the rifles handle, especially depending on where the weight was cut. All things being equal, I'd buy a lighter AR over a heavier one.

 

[sailskidrive]

Hmmm... I was just thinking about this.

I thought SOCOM was moving towards a heavier medium contour barrel.

Any true blood mall ninja will shun this lightweight crap like an NCStar varmint scope.

 

[ObsceneJesster]

Hmmm... I was just thinking about this.

I thought SOCOM was moving towards a heavier medium contour barrel.

Any true blood mall ninja will shun this lightweight crap like an NCStar varmint scope.

Mall Ninja's hang a bunch of crap off of their rifle making it heavy as hell. They could care less about rapid target acquisition or shaving weight for 20 mile hikes.

 

[erwos]

While I agree that lighter is better, I am somewhat skeptical that there's no durability trade-off. BCM saying so (if they even did say that, which isn't clear to me) does not make it so. There is nothing new about magnesium-aluminum alloys, and I very much doubt BCM has discovered something new there. I'm also really skeptical that they've invented a magical barrel profile that works just as good with missing material. Remember, they're trying to sell this to you, they're not going to tell you about the problems.

Now, that said, a durability and accuracy hit to save a pound isn't so bad, so long as total durability and accuracy for required usage remains acceptable. I am a big fan of my M16A1 clone for that very reason.

 

[sailskidrive]

M16A1... Erwos is obviously an ol'fart.

I guess the magnesium alloy would come in handy if you ever need to start a fire.

I can see where a really light rig would be useful, especially as a defensive set up where it would spend 99.99% of it's time being toted around.

Overall, even the HBAR M4-gurys are pretty light.

 

[erwos]

The M16A1 clone is part of my "Israeli service rifles" collection. I am not yet old enough to be an old fart, although some of the 18yros on this forum sure seem to make it seem like that.

Anyways, I really do think pencil barrels are the way to go on semi-auto guns that aren't trying to be used as sniper rifles; the weight savings really does outweigh the accuracy hit, even under sustained fire. So, BCM had the right idea there, at least.

 

[Nemesis]

They could care less about rapid target acquisition or shaving weight for 20 mile hikes.

i swear you crack me up man...

you keep mentioning hikes and stuff...unless this is SHTF, im not taking my AR hiking, it will be a boltie .308 which will be considerably heavier than even my AR let alone this 'revolutionary' ultralight...secondly, if you are going on a 20 mile hike, the weight of all your other gear matters far more than the shaving 15% of the weight off your rifle...

furthermore, the carbon 15 rifles have been out for a long time, and they have yet to get anywhere in terms of popularity...you would think if their light weight would really help with faster target acquisition and stuff that competition shooters would be using them all the time...

but hell, lets just go for ultra mega lightweight...lets skeletonize the fcg and bolt, then use a lighter buffer and stiffer spring, and forget chrome lining it adds weight...you could just make dovetails on the top of the handguard and rear of the receiver and some pistol sights because flip ups are heavy...while you are at it you can make sure the barrel is 1:12 twist like it was and just run 45 GR rounds to save weight there. hell, before you know it you might be down to 4 pounds! how awesome is that!

 

[FoxFirearms]

Where is the wheelbarrow to carry that thing?

 

[ObsceneJesster]

While I agree that lighter is better, I am somewhat skeptical that there's no durability trade-off. BCM saying so (if they even did say that, which isn't clear to me) does not make it so. There is nothing new about magnesium-aluminum alloys, and I very much doubt BCM has discovered something new there. I'm also really skeptical that they've invented a magical barrel profile that works just as good with missing material. Remember, they're trying to sell this to you, they're not going to tell you about the problems.

Now, that said, a durability and accuracy hit to save a pound isn't so bad, so long as total durability and accuracy for required usage remains acceptable. I am a big fan of my M16A1 clone for that very reason.

BCM didn't discover anything new. They were just the first ones to use it in this application.

The only material removed from the barrel is from the Fluting process. Other than that, they actually added material to the barrel making it a little thicker under the handguard where it matters most.

Of course accuracy isn't going to be as good as a Stainless Steel Bull barrel. Light weight barrels are made for battle accuracy, not bench accuracy.

Like I said before, I don't think BCM is going to sacrifice one of the best reputations in the industry to shave a few ounces. They are in the business of selling rifles to many people who's lives depend on the reliability and durability of the system. BCM has never been in the business of selling gimmicks for the sake of making a quick buck. Until BCM puts their name on something that is sub-standard in quality, I'll continue to give them the benefit of doubt they know exactly what they're doing.

 

[armed ferret]

i swear you crack me up man...

you keep mentioning hikes and stuff...unless this is SHTF, im not taking my AR hiking, it will be a boltie .308 which will be considerably heavier than even my AR let alone this 'revolutionary' ultralight...secondly, if you are going on a 20 mile hike, the weight of all your other gear matters far more than the shaving 15% of the weight off your rifle...

furthermore, the carbon 15 rifles have been out for a long time, and they have yet to get anywhere in terms of popularity...you would think if their light weight would really help with faster target acquisition and stuff that competition shooters would be using them all the time...

but hell, lets just go for ultra mega lightweight...lets skeletonize the fcg and bolt, then use a lighter buffer and stiffer spring, and forget chrome lining it adds weight...you could just make dovetails on the top of the handguard and rear of the receiver and some pistol sights because flip ups are heavy...while you are at it you can make sure the barrel is 1:12 twist like it was and just run 45 GR rounds to save weight there. hell, before you know it you might be down to 4 pounds! how awesome is that!

The only sad thing is the allegedly grown adult who insists on arguing with people in every thread started regarding lighter guns, that heavier guns are the only way to go, and lightening a firearm is ridiculous and stupid.

As for your statement about the weight of "all your other gear", the rifle IS part of your gear. If you have the choice between a 40 pound pack and a 9 pound rifle for an elk hunt, or a 40 pound pack and a 6 pound rifle, that you insist on using the 9 pound rifle only goes to show how little experience you have on multi-day hunts in mountainous terrain.

And since I'm sure you'd assume I'm talking about hunting elk with an AR15, I'm not. Just using it as an example.

Some folks enjoy camping and hiking, and prefer to take something along for protection on the trail.

Other people just have a hobby of building various AR15s, and may want to build a lightweight. If that fact gets sand up in your ****, you may want to either switch hobbies, or, since you don't live in MD anymore, head over to ar-15.co and take your leave. *shrug*

Either way, your continued trolling and arguing every single ****ing time someone brings this up is getting tiresome and annoying. Job well done, I suppose.

 

[niftyvt]

The only sad thing is the allegedly grown adult who insists on arguing with people in every thread started regarding lighter guns, that heavier guns are the only way to go, and lightening a firearm is ridiculous and stupid.

As for your statement about the weight of "all your other gear", the rifle IS part of your gear. If you have the choice between a 40 pound pack and a 9 pound rifle for an elk hunt, or a 40 pound pack and a 6 pound rifle, that you insist on using the 9 pound rifle only goes to show how little experience you have on multi-day hunts in mountainous terrain.

And since I'm sure you'd assume I'm talking about hunting elk with an AR15, I'm not. Just using it as an example.

Some folks enjoy camping and hiking, and prefer to take something along for protection on the trail.

Other people just have a hobby of building various AR15s, and may want to build a lightweight. If that fact gets sand up in your ****, you may want to either switch hobbies, or, since you don't live in MD anymore, head over to ar-15.co and take your leave. *shrug*

Either way, your continued trolling and arguing every single ****ing time someone brings this up is getting tiresome and annoying. Job well done, I suppose.

Well said mr ferret