AWB 2018 and grandfathering

[Occam]

If the average person wants to try to have a discussion about ways to keep guns out of the hands of the violent and mentally ill, screaming "The 2nd Amendment says 'shall not be infringed.' No exceptions" is the surest way to lose these ordinary people who are generally sympathetic of gun rights.

It's true. The actual real world occupied by actual other humans who vote is a more nuanced place. Would love it if we could all carry on embracing truly (and I mean this) sacred principles (like the right to defend oneself) without having to give a single nod towards the way that most other humans think and conduct themselves ... but that's the perfect being the enemy of the good (or of the barely even tolerable, in Maryland).

 

[GlocksAndPatriots]

It's true. The actual real world occupied by actual other humans who vote is a more nuanced place. Would love it if we could all carry on embracing truly (and I mean this) sacred principles (like the right to defend oneself) without having to give a single nod towards the way that most other humans think and conduct themselves ... but that's the perfect being the enemy of the good (or of the barely even tolerable, in Maryland).

Exactly. I think the average person is generally sympathetic of gun rights, but as you said it's all nuance. I would sit down and say, "Look, I recognize that allowing transfers without a background check because the seller isn't a dealer could be a problem. To fix this, let's allow private sellers to run the check for free by smart phone. It's not fair to make people pay. But the NICS check is currently useless. We need to have a stronger system to make sure people with severe mental illnesses are flagged. On the flip side, a lot of rules from the past are failed and useless. There's no reason to prohibit interstate handgun purchases if you have a carry permit. Let's get rid of that. Also, we need to have a mandatory system of reciprocity, but people carrying guns in public should be getting basic training, like an 8 hour NRA course. However, it's not fair to poor people looking to protect themselves, and society is better off if everyone has some gun training, so let's offer the gun safety/carry classes for free."

I think a lot of ordinary Democrats would be on the board with this.

 

[teratos]

Firstly, I'm from Connecticut. Secondly, I didn't say that people annoy me should be locked up. I said that the standards we used to institutionalize people prior to the deinstitutionalization of the 1970s should be restored.

No.

There have also been significant advances in the medications used to treat mental illness. Have you spent any time around people with mental illness, or better yet, have you ever treated mental illness? I have and do, and do not agree with you. You are talking out of school.

 

[GlocksAndPatriots]

No.

There have also been significant advances in the medications used to treat mental illness. Have you spent any time around people with mental illness, or better yet, have you ever treated mental illness? I have and do, and do not agree with you. You are talking out of school.

Yes, I have. I know that these medications are hit and miss, and it's hit or miss whether these people will stay on them or stop taking the medications because they don't like the way they feel on them. The only way to guarantee a schizophrenic won't become violent is to lock schizophrenics up. It's that simple.

 

[Boom Boom]

The only way to guarantee a schizophrenic won't become violent is to lock schizophrenics up. It's that simple.

You've got serious issues. Be careful about throwing stones.

 

[Rus]

How do we lose DC? One CCW denial at a time.

 

[j_h_smith]

Please Don't Feed The Trolls.

 

[GlocksAndPatriots]

You've got serious issues. Be careful about throwing stones.

Because I don't think mentally ill people have rights? I'm a traditionalist conservative. Traditional conservatives recognize that liberty means ordered freedom. Not unlimited freedom.

 

[teratos]

Yes, I have. I know that these medications are hit and miss, and it's hit or miss whether these people will stay on them or stop taking the medications because they don't like the way they feel on them. The only way to guarantee a schizophrenic won't become violent is to lock schizophrenics up. It's that simple.

Because I don't think mentally ill people have rights? I'm a traditionalist conservative. Traditional conservatives recognize that liberty means ordered freedom. Not unlimited freedom.

You are not a traditional conservative.

 

[Bob A]

The only way to guarantee a schizophrenic won't become violent is to lock schizophrenics up. It's that simple.

People who are so delusional as to believe all schizophrenics must be locked up might have mental issues which could lead them to violent behavior against the mentally ill. Perhaps they ought to be locked up?

Preemptive detention. It's the Progressive way.

.

 

[IDFInfantry]

Comments like that show you are no 2A advocate.

Seriously and with a name like TexDefender no less?

 

[gwchem]

Because I don't think mentally ill people have rights? I'm a traditionalist conservative. Traditional conservatives recognize that liberty means ordered freedom. Not unlimited freedom.

You're not a conservative. I dont even know what you are, but from your posts I'd guess a misguided child.

Please stop arguing with everyone on this board on the matter. Most disagree with you and its getting old.

 

[Robert2888]

"Conservative" these days only means worrying about their money and nothing else

 

[MigraineMan]

Good, dig your heels in and lose everything. Do what you want.

We dug-in our heels on March 6th, and got HB0991 withdrawn by the sponsor in the middle of opposing testimony.

Incremental concession is not a path to victory (or freedom, for that matter.)

 

[gwchem]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Its the cornerstone of our free society. You cannot lock up anyone who hasn't committed crime. And I do not believe in weapons regulations as you describe them.

Whether or not the country agrees with me, I believe most on this forum do.

 

[BradMacc82]

I'll take Dangerous Freedom over Peaceful Slavery for 5000 Alex.

Advocating for removing Due Process, yeah that couldn't backfire in any possible way.

 

[GlocksAndPatriots]

I'll take Dangerous Freedom over Peaceful Slavery for 5000 Alex.

Advocating for removing Due Process, yeah that couldn't backfire in any possible way.

I'm not advocating for removing due process. Nobody should ever be involuntarily committed without a court order. But the courts should have the power to order it. Right now they don't.

 

[GlocksAndPatriots]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Its the cornerstone of our free society. You cannot lock up anyone who hasn't committed crime. And I do not believe in weapons regulations as you describe them.

Whether or not the country agrees with me, I believe most on this forum do.

And prior to the deinstitutionalization, we had no mass killings. That's the factor, not guns, which is why gun control is stupid. We need forced commitment for dangerous people.

 

[eruby]

A girl once told me I don't belong in bars, I belong behind them.

 

[Ranchero50]

The occasional mass shooting, bombing, truck attack, and stabbing is a price you're willing to pay. I, and most Americans, disagree with you.

This is THE price of freedom dude. Once you open the mental health issue, who gets to draw the line between who should and who shouldn't be free. Look at how Israel has dealt with Islamic terrorist issues. They armed their society, not locked up the Islamic's. It isn't perfect but is what they have needed to so to survive in the current reality. Americans would be wise to understand that.

You're really grasping here and its been proven to not work out well. Which step of grief are you currently suffering through?