Attention 365.

[Bobby Mercer]

We need to come together as a group of 365 who are in a unique position. We are the group whose apps were received post Judge Legg Verdict and pre stay. Submitting our apps in the time between verdict and stay was a strategic and wise move. MSP was wise to hold our apps as long as they did which showed us, the 365 that we are in a unique position. MSP is making their next strategic move which is to tell us submit G&S or be denied. For us, the 365, our next strategic move is not provide G&S, but advise MSP to keep our apps alive or face 365 hearings which will tie up the hearings board and cost the state time and money the state doesn't need to spend.

This action only works if all 365 are in agreement with this strategy. Believe me when I tell you that we the 365 are not getting our CCW permits under the current scheme and any G&S reason you give will fail. Otherwise you would have applied for the permit using a G&S reason and would have your permit in hand now.

365, continue to be wise. Lets stay cohesive as a unique group. Don't provide G&S and continue with a strategy that is working.

 

[platoonDaddy]

So what is the plan?

 

[Bobby Mercer]

I believe we should write a letter in response to the letter we received stating that although we do not waive our right to an appeals hearing we request our apps continue to be placed on hold in lieu of an appeals hearing until the Wollard case runs its course of cert to Supreme Court. In the letter we advise the MSP that this alternative is far better then 365 applicants requesting an appeals hearing and creating a backlog. We should have someone smarter then me to create this letter which we the 365 could print out and mail to MSP along with a copy of the letter we received requesting the apps continue to hold. This will show the MSP that we are cohesive.

 

[pablo]

I believe we should write a letter in response to the letter we received stating that although we do not waive our right to an appeals hearing we request our apps continue to be placed on hold in lieu of an appeals hearing until the Wollard case runs its course of cert to Supreme Court. In the letter we advise the MSP that this alternative is far better then 365 applicants requesting an appeals hearing and creating a backlog. We should have someone smarter then me to create this letter which we the 365 could print out and mail to MSP along with a copy of the letter we received requesting the apps continue to hold. This will show the MSP that we are cohesive.

Concur. I'm in.

 

[Biggfoot44]

There were a handful that did have G&S but applied "all lawful purposes" out of principle. And you realive that *365* might or might not accuratly have reflected completed apps at a particular moment in time , it has become an inside joke. There are way more than that , estimates running 2-3K .

I and my sidekick are standing by to figure the best response. Actually creatimg a several year backlog for the review board is far from the worst idea.

 

[Mr H]

Remember that the 365 number was a midstream thing.

The real number is several times that, and are not all part of our comm group.

 

[yellowsled]

Wish MSI would give us some guidance.

 

[Bobby Mercer]

The letter could go along these lines.

To whom this may concern,

As you are aware the 4th circuit court has reversed a previous ruling by Judge Legg in regards to the SAF and Raymond Wollard case. After Judge Legg's verdict and before a stay was granted to Maryland over 300 applications for a permit were submitted to the Maryland State Police. Those applications were held pending the decision of the 4th circuit court. The 4th circuit court decision overturned Judge Legg's ruling however, it is a certainty that SAF and Wollard intend to apply for cert to the US Supreme Court. It is hereby requested that Maryland State Police Licensing Division continue to hold in lieu of an appeals hearing those applications which were processed after Judge Legg's ruling and before the stay of said ruling. It is further understood that the right to an appeals hearing is not waived. Holding these applications in lieu of a hearing will prevent those applicants from unnessescarily over burdening the appeals hearing board.

Something to this nature would do.

 

[Bobby Mercer]

There were a handful that did have G&S but applied "all lawful purposes" out of principle. And you realive that *365* might or might not accuratly have reflected completed apps at a particular moment in time , it has become an inside joke. There are way more than that , estimates running 2-3K .

I and my sidekick are standing by to figure the best response. Actually creatimg a several year backlog for the review board is far from the worst idea.

Although the number may or may not be higher those who received the form letter were more than likely post decision pre stay.

 

[Atlasarmory]

I'm in

 

[MDLiberty]

count me in. Came here to post something very similar. We need a cohesive message.

Also, if MSP receives a letter from 500+ people stating something along the lines of "2A is my G&S and if you give out permits to protect diamonds and prescription pads, but not my family, you are violating my rights" we may be able to force some change inside MSP. I know its a long shot, but with all the current lawsuits flying you never know what could happen.

 

[RobSky]

I doubt if the state cares about time or money. Look at SB281 and the 7 day wait for examples.

I would prefer to stick together and respond as a group.

In light of that, I don't have a G and S reason as defined by the state, http://www.mdsp.org/Organization/SupportServicesBureau/LicensingDivision/HandgunPermit.aspx and will probably ask that my app be withdrawn with a full refund of my app fee .

 

[USAFRavenR6]

Wish MSI would give us some guidance.

They did. They said to give whatever G&S you can think of and ask for a review when/if it is denied.

 

[Bobby Mercer]

Update! I spoke to the Lieu. at the handgun division and asked if the hundreds of post verdict pre stay apps be continued to hold until cert is made to the supreme court. He said that since no supreme court appeal is on record they must process the applications using the 4th Circuit decision. All applications which lack good and substantial will be denied. He further stated this came from the top on through the legal department to clear the applications out. I informed him that hundreds if not thousands of appeals hearings are coming and he said it's our right to appeal and they are aware and ready we are appealing.

 

[Mooseman]

If enough people would commit to this plan, you could count me in.

 

[jpo183]

I am not in this group, I applied with a G&S recently, however just something to think about.

If you put your apps on "hold" status hoping for an appeal, then the MSP has "good" numbers of approvals. With the large influx of denials that would mean that their numbers go down and it should help the cause.

I would come together to figure out a G&S and use that, that way there is denials on file, but I would have various G&S. Since the law does not state what a G&S is, it opens up another can of worms on them?

 

[PJDiesel]

Wish MSI would give us some guidance.

They did, yesterday morning.

Pretty much in a nutshell if you have (or had) G&S send in the docs. If you don't, wait to be officially denied.

Once you are denied, you will go through the administrative appeal, once you are in front of them, you will be denied and the process is over.

 

[Merlin]

We need to come together as a group of 365 who are in a unique position. We are the group whose apps were received post Judge Legg Verdict and pre stay. Submitting our apps in the time between verdict and stay was a strategic and wise move. MSP was wise to hold our apps as long as they did which showed us, the 365 that we are in a unique position. MSP is making their next strategic move which is to tell us submit G&S or be denied. For us, the 365, our next strategic move is not provide G&S, but advise MSP to keep our apps alive or face 365 hearings which will tie up the hearings board and cost the state time and money the state doesn't need to spend.

This action only works if all 365 are in agreement with this strategy. Believe me when I tell you that we the 365 are not getting our CCW permits under the current scheme and any G&S reason you give will fail. Otherwise you would have applied for the permit using a G&S reason and would have your permit in hand now.

365, continue to be wise. Lets stay cohesive as a unique group. Don't provide G&S and continue with a strategy that is working.

If you were running the MSP would you be concerned with a threat like that? Even if they thought that 365 would make the effort, that is very unlikely because most, if not all do not have anything close to the G&S they require to fight for . Who can afford to take a day off from work just to go to the appeal and say what? I want a ccw just cause?

If I was a trooper that would get overtime pay if attending appeal hearings gave me more hours, I would want everyone to appeal.

 

[Bobby Mercer]

If you were running the MSP would you be concerned with a threat like that? Even if they thought that 365 would make the effort, that is very unlikely because most, if not all do not have anything close to the G&S they require to fight for . Who can afford to take a day off from work just to go to the appeal and say what? I want a ccw just cause?

If I was a trooper that would get overtime pay if attending appeal hearings gave me more hours, I would want everyone to appeal.

Unless SAF applies for cert to the Supreme Court in the Woollard case, the post verdict-pre stay apps are being processed, denied and cleared. The only way out apps go back to on hold is if the Woollard cert to SC is done before the handgun appeals are heard.

 

[pcfixer]

So far as I know the SAF has not applied for cert.