ATF to declare that AR Pistols are AOW

[calicojack]

It creates a gigantic issue for law abiding citizens. This reason alone I suspect will be a source of massive and hopefully effective push back.

Millions upon millions of civilians, hundreds of manufacturers and business have a lot at stake here.

If these changes are proposed, I speculate it will not get through as easily as some others have.

And how many BLM protesters did I see toting AR pistols?
[EDIT] Point being I think the Dems are going to see their own push back as well.

 

[outrider58]

Better than chest-pissing poking matches :shurg:





IBTL, yay!

Not sure

Depends on who's getting wet...

 

[grimnar15]

If we have an agency dedicated to regulating our right to carry, then we can also have agencies dedicated to regulating free speech.

 

[Doctor_M]

Yep! If you want any hope of reigning this in, get out and vote. Pee Pads and Knee Pads would only be too happy to encourage this and worse restrictions. Vote!!

 

[Smacduff99]

Ex Post Facto Laws

Forgive me if I've missed the answer to this question. I've read through the thread and saw Ex Post Facto referenced, but perhaps one of our Attorney types can weigh in.

Isn't a brace ban a cut and dry Ex Post Facto law that would be overturned by any reasonable court (If such a thing still exists these days)?

 

[erwos]

It's only ex post facto if they actually made a regulation or law about it. INTERPRETING existing regulations and laws, I'm not so sure about.

Also, MANY of the braces past SBA2 never had any determination letters to begin with.

 

[FrankZ]

Why do politicians not fear signing bills that infringe on our ability to resist tyrants?

Because tar and feathering is out of vogue.

 

[Allen65]

Forgive me if I've missed the answer to this question. I've read through the thread and saw Ex Post Facto referenced, but perhaps one of our Attorney types can weigh in.

Isn't a brace ban a cut and dry Ex Post Facto law that would be overturned by any reasonable court (If such a thing still exists these days)?

It would only be an ex post facto issue if you were to be criminally charged for possessing it before the rule was changed. The idea behind that is you cannot be charged for an act that was committed at a time when the act wasn't against the law.

Sadly, 4th CA, in the bump stock case, ruled that basically "It sucks to be you" if you own something that is made illegal by a regulatory rule change, and you need to get rid of it to avoid charges, even if you have a significant vested property interest in the now contraband item.

 

[Bountied]

Because tar and feathering is out of vogue.

Not en vogue is what you want.

 

[FrankZ]

Not en vogue is what you want.

If I was French. I am not.

 

[Kharn]

Halbrook's summary of US v Thompson Center

Plurality opinion, concurrence, and dissent

It reads to me like ATF would need to show why the rule of lenity should not apply, and why they should receive Chevron deference with no history of prior rule making regarding such firearms.

 

[outrider58]

If I was French. I am not.

Touche`

 

[Doctor_M]

Touche`

Also known as, "Ribbed for her comfort".

 

[Smacduff99]

It would only be an ex post facto issue if you were to be criminally charged for possessing it before the rule was changed. The idea behind that is you cannot be charged for an act that was committed at a time when the act wasn't against the law.

Sadly, 4th CA, in the bump stock case, ruled that basically "It sucks to be you" if you own something that is made illegal by a regulatory rule change, and you need to get rid of it to avoid charges, even if you have a significant vested property interest in the now contraband item.

Thanks Gents, much appreciate your take on this.. We'll hope for the best on election day so that we can finish the job and get rid of the rest of the Obama holdovers. Seriously, what kind of person goes to work for the ATF and hates the 2nd ammendment??

 

[Allen65]

Seriously, what kind of person goes to work for the ATF and hates the 2nd amendment??

The same kind of person who works at Dept. of Agriculture HQ and has never raised a plant from seed. It's a paycheck to them, not a calling.

 

[MaxVO2]

Thanks Gents, much appreciate your take on this.. We'll hope for the best on election day so that we can finish the job and get rid of the rest of the Obama holdovers. Seriously, what kind of person goes to work for the ATF and hates the 2nd ammendment??

*****I know two people who work for the ATF who believe most every firearm, short of an old flintlock or single shot shotgun should be basically regulated and taxed through NFA. They will gladly enforce confiscation, after buybacks presumably fail to turn in the majority of the guns out there in private citizens hands. They are both screaming libs and are just waiting for Biden/Harris to win, and get the ball rolling. Yes, they own firearms themselves but they are "Professionals, with training" so I guess that makes it ok for only military and law enforcement to have guns but civilians or private citizens - not so much...

People like this, in positions of influence and enforcement, are out there. Very anti 2nd amendment and proud of it. They know what's best for you as they are "Professionals, with training"

 

[Bountied]

If I was French. I am not.

Ok then passé?

 

[outrider58]

Also known as, "Ribbed for her comfort pleasure".

 

[Doctor_M]

You are correct... it's been a while since I bought anything that "tickelish"

 

[MossPumper]

How about grow a set and fight for your rights. What this tells me is if Biden win and the Senate flips and the congress passes a law requiring that we turn in ALL semi autos many of you will be fighting to see who is first in line...It sickens me.

Once again it's going to take a small percentage of the population to win back the rights for all those who were too cowardly to fight...It happened in the 18th century and looks like it could happen again in the 21st. Frankly if you're not willing and ready to take the fight to a tyrannical government you have zero business owning any firearms.

I agree 100 percent with this statement.
Vote Libertarian..