ATF Coming After Firearms with Stabilizing Braces

[spoon059]

That's because people are throwing up every, including junk that no longer applies.
Center fire semi autos must have an overall length 29"+. That is with the stock fully extended. Any detachable muzzle device must be removed before measuring.
Single fire/bolt actions do not adhere to the 29" rule.
Rim fire guns do not adhere to the 29" OAL rule either. They can be as short as you want.
Since we're not discussing shotguns, no comment.
The 26" rule on pistols is any pistol over 26" AOL, not a pistol because it is considered non consealable and can actually have VFG on it for that reason. I believe AOWs require a special tax stamp for the cost of $5.

Its almost as if these numbers are arbitrary and pointless, other than to demonize and make them inaccessible to the lower income population of the state. Almost...

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Brother, I provided the directive from MSP.

Their words, not mine.

And that is outdated and incorrect due to legislation that was passed.

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Document%20Downloads/LD-FRU-15-004%20%20Summary%20of%20Passed%20Legislation.pdf

 

[jcutonilli]

Brother, I provided the directive from MSP.

Their words, not mine.

The law was changed in 2015. The directive from MSP was valid in 2014, but not after Oct 2015. Not all MSP directives remain valid.

 

[outrider58]

Its almost as if these numbers are arbitrary and pointless, other than to demonize and make them inaccessible to the lower income population of the state. Almost...

Pretty much. At first they banned SBRs(under the copycat statute?), but then later allowed them with the length limit(WTF?). Then they designated them as pistols under COMAR and as rifles in other statutes. That's what happens when you let ignorant anti-gunners draft gun law. Half those idiots don't even know which end of the tube the round comes out of.
Almost capricious. I can't wait to see what they do to the W&C structure in the coming session.

As far as accessibility goes, you pin that on the AFT. What's the difference between a 20" barrel and a 12" barrel?... 8"

 

[BigWilly]

And that is outdated and incorrect due to legislation that was passed.

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Document%20Downloads/LD-FRU-15-004%20%20Summary%20of%20Passed%20Legislation.pdf

So based on this document, a pistol AR previously legal would not be if it's less then 29" if it is to become a SBR. Can anyone confirm what the OAL of a 10.5" PSA upper with a SB Tactical SBA3 brace is? I've searched with no luck.I don't want to buy it to only find out it's not gonna be long enough.

Sent from my SM-T738U using Tapatalk

 

[BurkeM]

The law was changed in 2015. The directive from MSP was valid in 2014, but not after Oct 2015. Not all MSP directives remain valid.

I looked- MSP seems to be ignorant of the distinction.

Here's the statute (again)

2016 Maryland Code
Public Safety
Title 5 - Firearms
Subtitle 2 - Rifles and Shotguns
§ 5-203. Possession of short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun​

Universal Citation: MD Pub Safety Code § 5-203 (2016)
(a) Prohibited. -- A person may not possess a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun unless:

(1) the person, while on official business is:

(i) a member of the law enforcement personnel of the federal government, the State, or a political subdivision of the State;

(ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard while on duty or traveling to or from duty;

(iii) a member of the law enforcement personnel of another state or a political subdivision of another state, while temporarily in this State;

(iv) a warden or correctional officer of a correctional facility in the State; or

(v) a sheriff or a temporary or full-time deputy sheriff; or

(2) the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle has been registered with the federal government in accordance with federal law.

(b) Burden of proof. -- In a prosecution under this section, the defendant has the burden of proving the lawful registration of the short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.

(c) Penalty. -- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 5 years or a fine not exceeding $ 5,000 or both.

 

[BurkeM]

And that is outdated and incorrect due to legislation that was passed.

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Document%20Downloads/LD-FRU-15-004%20%20Summary%20of%20Passed%20Legislation.pdf

Thanks for finding that!

The "meat" of that update-

After October 1, 2015, dealers will no longer be required to submit SBR/SBS to the Handgun Roster
Board for review and inclusion on the Handgun Roster, as previously required in Advisory LD-FRS-14-002.

Public Safety Title 5-101
(n) handgun means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

Dealers are reminded that a Maryland State Police Application and Affidavit to Purchase a Regulated Firearm (77R) is, and
will remain, required for SBR’s/SBS’s with a barrel under 16” in length. (which means MSP consider it a 'handgun')

Semi-automatic SBR’s with
(1) an overall length of less than 29” and/or
(2) any two of the following:

(1) a folding stock;
(2) a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
(3) a flash suppressor is a “copycat weapon” under provisions of the Firearm Safety Act of
2013

and is not eligible for sale to the general public unless the purchaser had a purchase order for, or a
completed application to purchase, the firearm prior to October 1, 2013.

Maryland State Police Licensing Division
Bulletin LD-FRU-15-004

 

[outrider58]

So based on this document, a pistol AR previously legal would not be if it's less then 29" if it is to become a SBR. Can anyone confirm what the OAL of a 10.5" PSA upper with a SB Tactical SBA3 brace is? I've searched with no luck.I don't want to buy it to only find out it's not gonna be long enough.

Sent from my SM-T738U using Tapatalk

A 10.5" what exactly. It depends on the caliber.

 

[BigWilly]

Thanks for finding that!

The "meat" of that update-

After October 1, 2015, dealers will no longer be required to submit SBR/SBS to the Handgun Roster
Board for review and inclusion on the Handgun Roster, as previously required in Advisory LD-FRS-14-002.

Public Safety Title 5-101
(n) handgun means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

Dealers are reminded that a Maryland State Police Application and Affidavit to Purchase a Regulated Firearm (77R) is, and
will remain, required for SBR’s/SBS’s with a barrel under 16” in length. (which means MSP consider it a 'handgun')

Semi-automatic SBR’s with
(1) an overall length of less than 29” and/or
(2) any two of the following:

(1) a folding stock;
(2) a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
(3) a flash suppressor is a “copycat weapon” under provisions of the Firearm Safety Act of
2013

and is not eligible for sale to the general public unless the purchaser had a purchase order for, or a
completed application to purchase, the firearm prior to October 1, 2013.

Maryland State Police Licensing Division
Bulletin LD-FRU-15-004

Now I'm really confused. The one post said it's ok as long as federally approved but the quoted post says it's gotta be longer then 29" OAL. Thank you for looking these up but could you please explain which is currently in effect?

Sent from my SM-T738U using Tapatalk

 

[BigWilly]

A 10.5" what exactly. It depends on the caliber.

Sorry.... it's a PSA 10.5 upper in 5.56. It's one of their railed pistol kits, so it'll have everything I need to build my lower.

Sent from my SM-T738U using Tapatalk

 

[BurkeM]

Now I'm really confused. The one post said it's ok as long as federally approved but the quoted post says it's gotta be longer then 29" OAL. Thank you for looking these up but could you please explain which is currently in effect?

Sent from my SM-T738U using Tapatalk

If an SBR has 2 out of 3 "scary features," (folding stock, grenade launcher, flash suppressor) it may be prohibited for being too scary - as a "copycat weapon."

 

[outrider58]

Sorry.... it's a PSA 10.5 upper in 5.56. It's one of their railed pistol kits, so it'll have everything I need to build my lower.

Sent from my SM-T738U using Tapatalk

With a standard length carbine buffer tube and standard telescopic stock like any Magpul or mil spec, you should pass the necessary 29" requirement to SBR the gun.

And remember, you can put any other upper(and caliber) on an AR SBR as long as it meets the required OAL in Merryland(while in Md). You can put a 300 Blackout on it, 7.62, 9mm, etc. You can even throw a 4" .22 upper on your registered SBR lower if you want(because rimfires aren't governed by OAL). The only stipulation is, you either have to be able to re-convert back to the SBR's original description and caliber, or notify ATF of a permanent caliber change.

 

[outrider58]

If an SBR has 2 out of 3 "scary features," (folding stock, grenade launcher, flash suppressor) it may be prohibited for being too scary - as a "copycat weapon."

No need for a folding stock. Telescopic stocks are the rule for the day in AR land. The rest speaks for itself.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Thanks for finding that!

The "meat" of that update-

After October 1, 2015, dealers will no longer be required to submit SBR/SBS to the Handgun Roster
Board for review and inclusion on the Handgun Roster, as previously required in Advisory LD-FRS-14-002.

Public Safety Title 5-101
(n) handgun means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

Dealers are reminded that a Maryland State Police Application and Affidavit to Purchase a Regulated Firearm (77R) is, and
will remain, required for SBR’s/SBS’s with a barrel under 16” in length. (which means MSP consider it a 'handgun')

Semi-automatic SBR’s with
(1) an overall length of less than 29” and/or
(2) any two of the following:

(1) a folding stock;
(2) a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
(3) a flash suppressor is a “copycat weapon” under provisions of the Firearm Safety Act of
2013

and is not eligible for sale to the general public unless the purchaser had a purchase order for, or a
completed application to purchase, the firearm prior to October 1, 2013.

Maryland State Police Licensing Division
Bulletin LD-FRU-15-004

Short version is that a individual submitting a Form 1 is exempt from the MSP registration, HGRB, 77r , and 7 day waiting period. As long as they already own the firearm that a form 1 is submitted on.

The 29" OAL and copycat provisions are still in effect for a SBR.

Form 1 is a application to make and register a firearm with the ATF, in regards to NFA.

Form 4 is a application to register a NFA item that already exists, that you are purchasing from a FFL or transferring from a private party to you via a FFL.

That is a simple as anybody can make it for anybody else.

 

[BigWilly]

If an SBR has 2 out of 3 "scary features," (folding stock, grenade launcher, flash suppressor) it may be prohibited for being too scary - as a "copycat weapon."

So the the OAL doesn't come into play? As long as I don't put a folding stock or M203 on it with the flash suppressor I'll be good to go. Who the hell thinks this stuff up?

Sent from my SM-T738U using Tapatalk

 

[BigWilly]

Short version is that a individual submitting a Form 1 is exempt from the MSP registration, HGRB, 77r , and 7 day waiting period. As long as they already own the firearm that a form 1 is submitted on.

The 29" OAL and copycat provisions are still in effect for a SBR.

Form 1 is a application to make and register a firearm with the ATF, in regards to NFA.

Form 4 is a application to register a NFA item that already exists, that you are purchasing from a FFL or transferring from a private party to you via a FFL.

That is a simple as anybody can make it for anybody else.

I thought as long as it doesn't have 2 of the 3 things to deign it a copycat then it's good to go in regards to being less then 29"?

Sent from my SM-T738U using Tapatalk

 

[BurkeM]

Who the hell thinks this stuff up?

 

[BigWilly]

View attachment 380120

I have an opportunity to apply for a job transfer to the FL Keys that I am thinking of doing. Living in the Keys has been a dream for many years now.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

[Speed3]

I have an opportunity to apply for a job transfer to the FL Keys that I am thinking of doing. Living in the Keys has been a dream for many years now.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

If family isn't keeping you here and you can swing it, id move tomorrow. Love the keys

 

[jcutonilli]

I looked- MSP seems to be ignorant of the distinction.

MSP is ignorant of what distinction? They actually revised the directive that you supposedly cited

VI. Approval for Sale or Manufacture by Handgun Roster Board
Additionally, because PS 5-401(c) uses the definition of "handgun" from CR 4-201, a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun must be approved by the Handgun Roster Board before it may be manufactured for distribution or sale or sold or offered for sale in Maryland.

The revision was made in Section VI Approval for Sale or Manufacture by Handgun Roster Board and consisted ONLY of the removal of a comma in the last sentence located between the phrase "distribution or sale" and "or sold or offered for sale in Maryland."
SECTION VI HAS BEEN RESCINDED SEE NEW BULLETIN
LD-FRU-15-004

Brother, I provided the directive from MSP.

Their words, not mine.

It is not even their words. They already acknowledged that that section had changed.

I am simply providing the reason why the directive was revised.