Armed Teachers

[Blaster229]

I have no issue with contentious objectors going and doing something else. Typically conscripts do a lot worse than volunteers do and I certainly get why. IMHO, conscription should only be done in dire circumstances for active military service.

Then again, I also believe that there should be mandatory public service for ALL. Maybe an exception for those so profoundly mentally or physically disabled they can't actively participate in the workforce at all. But whether that is 6-12 months of digging ditches, taking disability interviews, cleaning roadsides, cutting trails, humping a rifle, or guarding the border. A lot different if you are wide open on choosing if you are doing the equivalent of the civilian conservation corps, or NG/army for 6-12 months for your service. It is much more of a choice that you are choosing armed service.

I just think too few people these days have any real concept of public service.

Conscientious objector?

 

[teratos]

Conscientious objector?

No. Contentious. The guy objected in a very argumentative manner.

 

[ToneGrail]

I have no issue with contentious objectors going and doing something else. Typically conscripts do a lot worse than volunteers do and I certainly get why. IMHO, conscription should only be done in dire circumstances for active military service.

Then again, I also believe that there should be mandatory public service for ALL. Maybe an exception for those so profoundly mentally or physically disabled they can't actively participate in the workforce at all. But whether that is 6-12 months of digging ditches, taking disability interviews, cleaning roadsides, cutting trails, humping a rifle, or guarding the border. A lot different if you are wide open on choosing if you are doing the equivalent of the civilian conservation corps, or NG/army for 6-12 months for your service. It is much more of a choice that you are choosing armed service.

I just think too few people these days have any real concept of public service.

I wouldn't want to put a weapon in the hands of an America-hating Antifa basement-dweller. No NG/Army for them, only unarmed menial tasks with zero access to sensitive information while under the watchful eye of armed personnel .

digging ditches - yes

taking disability interviews - no

cleaning roadsides - yes

cutting trails - yes

humping a rifle, or guarding the border - no way, humping ammo maybe as long as they were supervised closely so they can't give it to the enemy or discard it. Maybe even shackle them to the locked ammo box they carry.

 

[lazarus]

Conscientious objector?

Both really.

What happens when I have my morning coffee late :-)

 

[lazarus]

No. Contentious. The guy objected in a very argumentative manner.

I mean, if they have morale issues with or they are just a dick about it, I don’t want them having a gun.

 

[OldBrokenGrunt]

I wouldn't want to put a weapon in the hands of an America-hating Antifa basement-dweller. No NG/Army for them, only unarmed menial tasks with zero access to sensitive information while under the watchful eye of armed personnel .

digging ditches - yes

taking disability interviews - no

cleaning roadsides - yes

cutting trails - yes

humping a rifle, or guarding the border - no way, humping ammo maybe as long as they were supervised closely so they can't give it to the enemy or discard it. Maybe even shackle them to the locked ammo box they carry.

Clearing a minefield…

 

[OldBrokenGrunt]

I think we can all agree that there are some people that should not have a firearm.

As far as forcing someone to carry a firearm if they don’t want to, you’re still forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do. Isn’t that what sex traffickers are doing? Forcing people to do something they don’t want to do?

This is not like the selective service. You can’t use that argument when you’re trying to say that teachers should have to carry a gun.

Out of all the billions of dollars that is wasted in this country every year maybe that money could be used to make school safer. There are many different options other than arming a teacher. I don’t know what would be the best. But I’m pretty sure forcing someone to carry a firearm is not in our best interests.

 

[Raineman]

I'm old, memory is not as sharp as it once was, but IIRC a few years ago, there was a bill in the mga to allow each school district to research arming school staff and allowing each district to determine if they wanted to allow staff in there school district to carry and under what conditions
Of course this never made it out of committee, but as I remember, a company, I think from Ohio, but possibly from Indiana or Illinois testified for the bill describing in detail the training they offered to teachers and school staff in school defense. I think they did not charge the teachers or schools. It was voluntary training. They would announce x number of training seats and they were always full with a huge waiting list. They had stats as to the effectiveness of training, the safety of trained teachers carrying and how many school districts were seeking their training. It was quite impressive and persuasive ( but fell on deaf ears). I can't remember the company ( maybe group is more accurate), but I am sure they came to testify at the invitation of one of our MSI leaders. They might have been the same company referenced in the Newsmax link at the beginning of this thread.
My point being that there are resources out there. Schools do not have to reinvent the wheel; and that, as has been said before, there are already hundreds of thousands of armed staff in our schools and the only class rooms running in blood are those in unarmed gun free schools.
I wish I could remember who the presenters were.

That was Rick Imapallaria's bill. (Szelega and some others may have been in on it too?). It is also the hearing that myself and Mopar were ejected from (my first, Mopar was a repeat offender) for following Vallario's instructions to "speak your mind".

Forcing teachers to be armed is among the dumbest ideas I've ever heard in my life. Some people are not gun people. You shouldn't be required to have a firearm on you in order to teach the youth of this nation. That's just ridiculous.

When I see stuff like this I can only think of Obi Wan Kenobi saying "Only the Sith deal in absolutes".

The anti gun people who are falling over themselves to scream this garbage from the hilltops are the exact ones that don't understand that not one single person has suggested "mandatory carry" for teachers. They think if a few WANT to take the responsibility, that we'll be forcing guns into trembling timid hands while they are crying and wetting themselves saying, "no, don't make me". Just not so.

I am against forcing or incentivicing teachers to carry. But those who want to should be given the opportunity to train, qualify and carry (the minimum qualification criterion should be: 'performs better than the Uvalde ISD PD)

I am against incentivizing as well,

I had an Architectual drawing teacher in 9th grade who was a marine reserve master sgt. The dude could crack coconuts with his calves. Awesome dude. Never once saw him lose his temper. There were a couple of times someone REALLY pissed him off. He'd talk in a very cool, calm, and collected voice. No naughty words, no raised tone, but the veins in his neck and forehead would bulge out so much they might hit someone nearby and everyone would get REAL quiet because you knew he was PISSED.

I am not sure what the Marine Corps minimum height is, but he was right at it, or maybe under. Then again, it is possible they just measured his shoulder width and called that his height to get in, because he was about as broad as he was tall.

Was his name Coach McGee?

 

[lazarus]

That was Rick Imapallaria's bill. (Szelega and some others may have been in on it too?). It is also the hearing that myself and Mopar were ejected from (my first, Mopar was a repeat offender) for following Vallario's instructions to "speak your mind".


When I see stuff like this I can only think of Obi Wan Kenobi saying "Only the Sith deal in absolutes".

The anti gun people who are falling over themselves to scream this garbage from the hilltops are the exact ones that don't understand that not one single person has suggested "mandatory carry" for teachers. They think if a few WANT to take the responsibility, that we'll be forcing guns into trembling timid hands while they are crying and wetting themselves saying, "no, don't make me". Just not so.

I am against incentivizing as well,

Was his name Coach McGee?

Wrestling coach also? high school JV football too maybe? I don't remember, he coached something too. I was Track and cross country, so not my coach for anything? Though I am stretching on the memory of what his name was as this was 25 years ago now. Awesome teacher.

 

[ToneGrail]

Clearing a minefield…

 

[BurkeM]

The first google search result for "guns dropped in schools" returns Giffords law center has a list of incidents where guns were dropped, left, or otherwise mishandled in schools over the last few years.

Those incidents almost exclusively involved STUDENTS, who were triple banned from having/possessing a handgun, banned from transporting a handgun, and banned from bringing a handgun to school.

I couldn't find a case involving a lawfully armed teacher or staff member.

 

[teratos]

Those incidents almost exclusively involved STUDENTS, who were triple banned from having/possessing a handgun, banned from transporting a handgun, and banned from bringing a handgun to school.

I couldn't find a case involving a lawfully armed teacher or staff member.

It would have been blasted on the news ad nausem. We’d literally never hear the end of it from MDA.

 

[Bob A]

The anti gun people who are falling over themselves to scream this garbage from the hilltops are the exact ones that don't understand that not one single person has suggested "mandatory carry" for teachers. They think if a few WANT to take the responsibility, that we'll be forcing guns into trembling timid hands while they are crying and wetting themselves saying, "no, don't make me". Just not so.

Oh, I think it's more a case of understanding exactly what they need to say to bias their audience while distorting reality. Only an idiot would actually try to make arming teachers mandatory; the game is to terrify the idiots who think this could happen.

Unfortunately, we've gone a long way toward creating a population of such idiots.

 

[BurkeM]

I think we can all agree that there are some people that should not have a firearm.

"Those" people should be in prison or committed to mental hospitals for prolonged treatment and 're-education,' Khmer Rouge or CCP style. Right??

Out of all the billions of dollars that is wasted in this country every year maybe that money could be used to make school safer.

We spend more money on the federal, state and county prisons and jail systems than we do on schools each year, and prisons aren't safe.

Without a society (culture) that teaches morality and obedience to authority from the very youngest ages to age 5 in the home, "society" becomes amoral and prone to vulnerability to individuals who see no reason to comply with rules, regulations, or laws.
American schools are open 8-12 hours a day to admit students, teachers, staff, and the general public. Most violent acts committed in school are committed by the students, faculty, or paid staff members. Attacks on schools by outsiders is extremely rare.

We could put up 3 meter high berms, topped with concertina, with towers at random points along the 1,000 yard perimeter and minefields out to 1,500 yards around each public school. That would make a mass murder event at a school more difficult, but not impossible. Every school bus would be vulnerable to ambush or roadside bombs. Every school bus stop would be an ideal location for mass murder, where more than 3 children are picked up or dropped off.

"School safety" starts with social engineering at birth. Man invented a concept called "religion" several millennia back, a system that taught members of each tribe a social and moral core and code of conduct.

Societies that eliminate religion and faith-based morality are doomed to reversion to barbarism.

 

[OldBrokenGrunt]

What exactly do you mean by obedience to authority?

I will never teach any of my children to be obedient. I would hope no one else on this country would ever teach their children to be obedient. I will teach my children to be respectful. And there is a massive difference between being respectful and being obedient.

You naturally assumed they when I spoke about making school safer I met arm guards, breezeways, metal detector‘s, and a bunch of other crap.

We can make some of our school safer by getting rid of the kids who are not there to learn. The kids that are just pushed forward by the teachers because they do not want to deal with them anymore. Explain to me how so many high school graduates in Baltimore can’t read past a fifth grade level. What about all the excuses that are made for kids who are constantly in trouble for violent behavior? Now we can start talking about the drugs that are prevailant in schools. Why are kids who are found with any form of narcotics still allowed back into a school?

There needs to be consequences for actions.

As far as prisons. Prisons teach nonviolent offenders how to be violent offenders. Does that mean I believe that prison should be abolished? Heck no! We should run our prisons like the Russians do. Look at some of the YouTube videos of how the Russian prisons are ran.

Cold blooded Murderers, rapists, and child molesters Who are found guilty with zero doubt and loads of evidence should not be kept in prison until they die of old age. They should not be released after serving 25% of their sentence. They should be thrown into a pit of alligators, a pack of lions, a pack of hyenas, or some other carnivore on national television.

All that is just my opinion. Some people may call me cold blooded, and they would be right. The only entity I have heard that has any mercy is God.