AR15 reloads

[byf43]

I'll be working up more accurate loads with the SMKs starting with Varget probably.

For the cheap Xtreame bullets I'll leave it where it is for the first batch of 500 and use up my H335 with them.

You MIGHT want to re-consider the H-335 with 69 gr Sierra MatchKings.

H-335 has been available, while Varget is scarce.

My load (23.0 gr) of H-335 and 69 gr. Sierra MatchKings group sub-MOA (5/16") at 100 yards, for 3 shots.
Add in another 2 shots and it still stays under 1/2".
Granted, this is with a Colt R6601 off of sandbags.

 

[Melnic]

I can try some H335 with the 69 SMK, I have both 53g SMK and 69SMK.
My scoped AR is 1:9 twist if that is important.

My dad and I both have Varget. I have lots of 7.62x54r or 30-06 filled with Varget that if needed I could pull and dump the powder if I wanted. Hense, I wanted to try the SMKs on that.

BTW, when folks are testing accuracy at say 100 yards, how long are you waiting between shots for barrel cooling?

 

[byf43]

I can try some H335 with the 69 SMK, I have both 53g SMK and 69SMK.
My scoped AR is 1:9 twist if that is important.

My dad and I both have Varget. I have lots of 7.62x54r or 30-06 filled with Varget that if needed I could pull and dump the powder if I wanted. Hense, I wanted to try the SMKs on that.

BTW, when folks are testing accuracy at say 100 yards, how long are you waiting between shots for barrel cooling?

1:9 twist should stabilize the 69 gr boolits just fine.

I've never used Varget. I have heard of some people having trouble finding it.

When I shot this group, I was using an Uncle Bud's "Bulls Bag" and had open sights on the R6601.
I can't tell you how long it was between shots, other than it was only the time to get on target, take a couple of breaths, let it out about halfway, shoot, follow-through.

This is 3 shots at 100 yards. St. Charles Sportsman's Club.
After the 3rd shot, a good friend (retired Deputy US Marshal) yelled and told me to stop!!! He didn't want me to screw up a good group.
5/16" center-to-center.
Shot from Bulls Bag.
Sierra MK 69 gr. 23.0 gr H-335.



3 shots fired from prone. 100 yards. SR-21 target.
Not quite 5/16", but, still under an inch.
A dime is right at 5/8" in diameter.





The above groups are why I don't use another powder in 5.56x45mm/.223.

IF you use the load given, above, watch for signs of over-pressure. It is safe in MY guns, however, with some Federal brass, I have noticed slightly flattened primers.

 

[deesly1]

OK, I'm working up some 223 loads for an AR15

I started with a 55g jacketed projectile (Sierra) cause I have a box of 500 coming from Xtreme soon. Not looking for stellar accuracy but if I can beat commercial typical ammo, I'll be happy. My books on H335 show different start and max loads.

Right now I am using a Carbine with 14.5" barel (16 1/4" with Welded Flash Hider of course) and 1/7 twist.
I have another upper that is 16" and 1/9 twist which will be the main one I work up loads for.

My question is this. Not sure I was trusting my chrono today.
Here are the average velocities I got:
(factory ammo and some previous loads)
Tulamo 55g 2690fps
Winchester 62g 2700fps
25g IMR4895 53g HPBT 2690fps (load I worked up for my dad's AR)

(new reloads)
H335, 55g Jacketed
22.0g 2250fps
22.5g 2260fps
23.0g 2280fps
23.5g 2428fps
24.0g 2510fps
24.5g 2650fps

Varget 69g matchking
23.0g 2220fps
(chrono was erratic for loads between 23.5 and 24.0)
24.5g 2620fps

I was shooting 50 yards with iron sights so I was not really testing the accuracy. I wanted to get ball park velocities before I worked up loads again. I only shot 3 per weight range. One thing I noticed was my first 3 of the 69g match kings even at that low velocity were almost touching. I was not expecting that with that upper I was using.

So the big question I have is the 100fps jumps with 0.5grains of H335, is that expected/typical?

Although 55gr will work out of a 1:7 twist. I would suggest using a 75 gr or 77 gr bullet, to prevent over rotation with such a fast twist. I typically use 75gr Hornady to keep tight groups. As for the 1:9 I would use a 62 grain round to control the bullet down range. Out of my 1:9 stag upper I use 25.0gr H335 with Xtreme FMJ-BT 55 gr O.A.L. 2.205 with a Remington 7 1/2 BR primer. I do not chrono. I shoot for accuracy and these are a good plinking round. If you need more accuracy I would suggest changing to H322 as a powder. Just my .2 cents.

 

[Speed3]

Accurate 2520, Varget, TAC, H335 are all good powders for 223. I use varget since I have it and I use it in my 308 and 223.

 

[Russ D]

Although 55gr will work out of a 1:7 twist. I would suggest using a 75 gr or 77 gr bullet, to prevent over rotation with such a fast twist. I typically use 75gr Hornady to keep tight groups. As for the 1:9 I would use a 62 grain round to control the bullet down range. Out of my 1:9 stag upper I use 25.0gr H335 with Xtreme FMJ-BT 55 gr O.A.L. 2.205 with a Remington 7 1/2 BR primer. I do not chrono. I shoot for accuracy and these are a good plinking round. If you need more accuracy I would suggest changing to H322 as a powder. Just my .2 cents.

Out of curiosity have you encountered over-rotation? I was playing with some 50 grain Vmax's out of my 1-7 twist White Oak and even when pushed hard only encountered really good accuracy out to 200 yards. In fact they were so accurate it became my go to 3-gun load in that rifle.

 

[SgtKope]

Out of curiosity have you encountered over-rotation? I was playing with some 50 grain Vmax's out of my 1-7 twist White Oak and even when pushed hard only encountered really good accuracy out to 200 yards. In fact they were so accurate it became my go to 3-gun load in that rifle.

I would like to know too. I doubt you would spin the jackets off a 55 gr in a 1:7 twist.

 

[Sticky]

I shoot a 40gr out of my 1:8, but have never really pushed that load much past 200yds. It is groundhog in the eye at 100.

 

[deesly1]

Out of curiosity have you encountered over-rotation? I was playing with some 50 grain Vmax's out of my 1-7 twist White Oak and even when pushed hard only encountered really good accuracy out to 200 yards. In fact they were so accurate it became my go to 3-gun load in that rifle.

when shooting at 100/200yards with lighter grain bullets in a faster twist the consist targeting is sporadic. Even using a concentric tool shooting a 55 gr round will cause the round to over rotate and spin at an inconsistent revolution causing the round to quote spin out. I am not claiming the jacket comes off the projectile. The weight of a heavier grain round out of a faster twist gives less chance of over rotation. ex: shooting a 75 gr round out of a 1:7 will be far more accurate at longer distances than a 55 gr shot out the same muzzle. If you don't believe me try some 75 gr out of your 1:7 an you will see the difference. also that is a white oak barrel, I have a stainless on my 6.8 spc and it is very accurate. Even the military uses a 62gr out of a 1:7 twist!

 

[outrider58]

I've been loading my precision rounds with Ramshot/Tac and 69gr.bullits but, I have a fresh bottle of varget to try. I've never loaded any varget and i'm curious to see its results. My two fav bullits, Lapua Scenars and SMKs in 69gr Through a 20'' 1:9 bbl.

 

[Russ D]

when shooting at 100/200yards with lighter grain bullets in a faster twist the consist targeting is sporadic. Even using a concentric tool shooting a 55 gr round will cause the round to over rotate and spin at an inconsistent revolution causing the round to quote spin out. I am not claiming the jacket comes off the projectile. The weight of a heavier grain round out of a faster twist gives less chance of over rotation. ex: shooting a 75 gr round out of a 1:7 will be far more accurate at longer distances than a 55 gr shot out the same muzzle. If you don't believe me try some 75 gr out of your 1:7 an you will see the difference. also that is a white oak barrel, I have a stainless on my 6.8 spc and it is very accurate. Even the military uses a 62gr out of a 1:7 twist!

55's shoot to under .4 moa in my 1-7". I've never gotten 75's or 77's under .6. Up to 200 yards flat based bullets are almost always more accurate. It's not until the ballistic advantage of the heavier bullets takes over that it becomes beneficial. I have almost nowhere to shoot over 200 in MD. For me to prefer 77's or 75"s I'd need to move out of this state.

 

[deesly1]

55's shoot to under .4 moa in my 1-7". I've never gotten 75's or 77's under .6. Up to 200 yards flat based bullets are almost always more accurate. It's not until the ballistic advantage of the heavier bullets takes over that it becomes beneficial. I have almost nowhere to shoot over 200 in MD. For me to prefer 77's or 75"s I'd need to move out of this state.

I also need to say I use a slower burning powder like cfe 223 or bl-c(2)than h335. However, I say if it works for you don't change it is just my preference. keep your powder dry and your sight picture clear.

 

[Russ D]

I also need to say I use a slower burning powder like cfe 223 or bl-c(2)than h335. However, I say if it works for you don't change it is just my preference. keep your powder dry and your sight picture clear.

BLC-2 is a very good powder for .223. My best groups have come from BLC-2 and 60 grain flat based bullets. I honestly haven't used CFE yet, but if I see it I will pick some up. I've used more Varget than anything else, but with it's scarcity I'm working up loads with other powders.

 

[BradMacc82]

My best groups always were with H335, it's the only powder I ever used for .223/5.56. From 55gr to 75gr, it always did well in MY rifles.

Russ, depending on how H414 does in my .260, I may have some Varget looking for a new home.

 

[Melnic]

My Varget and 69g SMK produces a compressed charge. I'd be curious to know if that compression hurts the accuracy because at a certain point just under 25g some will crunch and others won't depending on how the powder is sitting in the case prior to seating.

I realized I had some W748 to load my cheap bullets and save the H335 for the match bullets

 

[dist1646]

No need to use 25gr Varget with a 69gr bullet. You should find an excellent accuracy node at 24gr. Many years ago, I ran an accuracy test at 200yds and found that 24gr Varget shot the smallest groups for that powder. That result was consistent with the half dozen rifles used for testing.
I also found that there was not enough difference between Varget, N140, RE15, N135 and one other powder (that I can't remember off the top of my head) to worry about. I was using 20 shot groups for the test. All powders tested produced groups that were well under MOA.

 

[Pinecone]

when shooting at 100/200yards with lighter grain bullets in a faster twist the consist targeting is sporadic. Even using a concentric tool shooting a 55 gr round will cause the round to over rotate and spin at an inconsistent revolution causing the round to quote spin out. I am not claiming the jacket comes off the projectile. The weight of a heavier grain round out of a faster twist gives less chance of over rotation. ex: shooting a 75 gr round out of a 1:7 will be far more accurate at longer distances than a 55 gr shot out the same muzzle. If you don't believe me try some 75 gr out of your 1:7 an you will see the difference. also that is a white oak barrel, I have a stainless on my 6.8 spc and it is very accurate. Even the military uses a 62gr out of a 1:7 twist!

HUH?

How does the revolution become inconsistent?

You have to compare apples to apples. Work up a load with 53 gr SMKs and compare to 77 gr SMKs at a reasonable range (100 - 300 yards).

55 gr are NOT match bullets.

 

[Russ D]

I agree with you, but don't count out the 55 vmaxs being very close to match bullets. If we did a side by side compare of them vs. The 77's I'll put my money on the Vmaxs. Also doesn't the army use 62's because of terminal performance gains?

HUH?

How does the revolution become inconsistent?

You have to compare apples to apples. Work up a load with 53 gr SMKs and compare to 77 gr SMKs at a reasonable range (100 - 300 yards).

55 gr are NOT match bullets.

 

[Melnic]

No need to use 25gr Varget with a 69gr bullet. You should find an excellent accuracy node at 24gr. Many years ago, I ran an accuracy test at 200yds and found that 24gr Varget shot the smallest groups for that powder. That result was consistent with the half dozen rifles used for testing.
I also found that there was not enough difference between Varget, N140, RE15, N135 and one other powder (that I can't remember off the top of my head) to worry about. I was using 20 shot groups for the test. All powders tested produced groups that were well under MOA.

I stand corrected. my run of Varget with 69g was 24.2-25
Even down at 24.2 I was getting some crunching.
I'll make up some lower loads next time to try.

 

[dist1646]

I stand corrected. my run of Varget with 69g was 24.2-25
Even down at 24.2 I was getting some crunching.
I'll make up some lower loads next time to try.

I suggest starting at 23.5gr and working up. I use 23.5gr with 77gr sierras.