AR15 lower > .300 BLK

[subman]

You don’t
I’ve backed up my statements with two conversations today with the ATF. Both without hesitation said it’s a lower and the owner can build it , disassemble it and build it again going from rifle to pistol etc… I encourage you to do the same and talk with the ATF as no one else so far has seemed to do. If you get a different answer than I received I would greatly appreciate the name and number so I can put them in touch with my agents and let them hash this out.
Thanks and good luck.

Thank you.

 

[jcutonilli]

Once a rifle always a rifle unless you SBR it and pay the tax.

The NFA, Title 26, United States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 53, requires that persons manufacturing, importing, transferring, or possessing firearms as defined in the NFA comply with the Act’s licensing, registration, and taxation requirements. The NFA defines the term “firearm” at 26 U.S.C. 5845(a) to include “(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;” (“short-barreled rifle”) and “(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length” (“weapon made from a rifle”). The term “rifle” is defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(c) and 27 CFR 479.11 as “a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.” Although not defined in the NFA, the term “pistol” is defined by the Act’s implementing regulations, 27 CFR 479.11, as “a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)” (emphasis added).

United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992)

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA

5 Pins is Right .

RRomig is discussing the likelihood of getting caught .

This is not correct, if it were, T/C would have been decided differently. There seems to be no argument as to whether the T/C firearm could be converted back and forth between a handgun and rifle. The only issue in the case was whether an NFA firearm was created because it could be assembled into an NFA firearm. The conclusion was that it was not an NFA firearm.

Additionally T/C never cited 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4) in the opinion or syllabus. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/504/505/

From https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-rifle-pistol-without-registering-firearm The ATF talks about a "firearm that was originally a rifle", but the firearm in this thread is not originally a rifle, it is a lower.

 

[jcutonilli]

Correct, I purchased a stripped lower.. and had to wait 7 day jail time to take possession (using my HQL)..just as if I were buying a handgun. I specifically purchased a lower (vice buying an AR rifle) so that I could have the flexibility but then I read on these forums that if I made it into a rifle first I lose that flexibility.

You do not need an HQL to purchase a stripped lower

Regulated Firearm Purchases

An official website of the State of Maryland.

mdsp.maryland.gov

The 7 day jail time is because the FFL chose to consider it a regulated firearm

 

[5pins]

This is not correct, if it were, T/C would have been decided differently. There seems to be no argument as to whether the T/C firearm could be converted back and forth between a handgun and rifle. The only issue in the case was whether an NFA firearm was created because it could be assembled into an NFA firearm. The conclusion was that it was not an NFA firearm.

Additionally T/C never cited 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4) in the opinion or syllabus. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/504/505/

From https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-rifle-pistol-without-registering-firearm The ATF talks about a "firearm that was originally a rifle", but the firearm in this thread is not originally a rifle, it is a lower.

When he "originally assembled" the lower into a rifle, it became a rifle.

 

[subman]

oh dear... so much confusion.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

When he "originally assembled" the lower into a rifle, it became a rifle.

Whose to keep track of when said person “originally assembled” the lower

 

[subman]

You do not need an HQL to purchase a stripped lower

Regulated Firearm Purchases

An official website of the State of Maryland.

mdsp.maryland.gov

The 7 day jail time is because the FFL chose to consider it a regulated firearm

Where can you buy a stripped lower without an HQL?

 

[scottyfz6]

Where can you buy a stripped lower without an HQL?

any gun store that sells them. You do need to sign up on the msp website but you can buy a stripped lower with out a hql. Then the fun part you can use the purchase of the lower as a training exemption as you owned a "regulated" firearm.

 

[rbird7282]

Where can you buy a stripped lower without an HQL?

Anywhere in MD lol

 

[Tungsten]

I thought everyone assembled their lowers with a pistol upper first. Why would you not do that simply for cya purposes?

 

[jcutonilli]

When he "originally assembled" the lower into a rifle, it became a rifle.

Lowers generally don't need to be assembled. They are considered firearms in and of themselves (unless you are referring to 80%s) see 18 USC 921(a)(3)(B). Since you are modifying the firearm into a rifle it is no longer in its original configuration.

I also do not know what you are quoting when you say "originally assembled" as that term is not found in 26 USC 5845 or T/C (504 US 505) or the referenced ATF answer.

 

[jrumann59]

Call the ATF see what their records say the lower is....

Technically before he put the stock on the buffer tube it was a pistol

 

[teratos]

Whose to keep track of when said person “originally assembled” the lower

The magic. Any wizard worth his eye of newt can tell you…

I thought everyone assembled their lowers with a pistol upper first. Why would you not do that simply for cya purposes?

I thought everyone did it.

 

[subman]

Anywhere in MD lol

learn something new every day

 

[outrider58]

Call the ATF see what their records say the lower is....

Technically before he put the stock on the buffer tube it was a pistol

Every GD day!

 

[RRomig]

Call the ATF see what their records say the lower is....

Technically before he put the stock on the buffer tube it was a pistol

It’s not a pistol it’s other and receiver but it can also be a frame. That’s the ongoing discussion within the ATF

 

[5pins]

Lowers generally don't need to be assembled. They are considered firearms in and of themselves (unless you are referring to 80%s) see 18 USC 921(a)(3)(B). Since you are modifying the firearm into a rifle it is no longer in its original configuration.

I also do not know what you are quoting when you say "originally assembled" as that term is not found in 26 USC 5845 or T/C (504 US 505) or the referenced ATF answer.

See post #8 and #19

 

[jrumann59]

To quote another member here, a lot BGOS here.

 

[jcutonilli]

See post #8 and #19

United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992)

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA

It has nothing to do with registration. If it was assembled into a rifle the first time, it is a rifle.

The quote I gave above is from the Thompson case handed down by the court, not the ATF.

United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992)

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA

What you claim as a quote from T/C (504 US 505) does not appear in the referenced document

United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Co., 504 U.S. 505 (1992)

United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Co.

supreme.justia.com

 

[jrumann59]

All this confusion over a non-binary receiver....