Any reason to not SBR my ARs?

[HauptsAriba]

So, your saying that the AWB governed NFA items as well? I'm asking, been curious about this.

How did that effect other things NFA?

 

[outrider58]

So, your saying that the AWB governed NFA items as well? I'm asking, been curious about this.

How did that effect other things NFA?

Not sure it did, but F1 ing a rifle post ban IS making a new rifle(SBR) and subject to all the new rules.

 

[Major03]

Except the eform page is down for the ATF No SBR'ing happening today it seems.

 

[clandestine]

So, your saying that the AWB governed NFA items as well? I'm asking, been curious about this.

How did that effect other things NFA?

NFA is effected by many other regulations such as 922r. The 94 AWB was no different.

For instance a post ban AR (Lets say it was made in 1997) could have a FIXED Stock, Pistol Grip, and Muzzle Brake (Which had to be PINNED to the Barrel if there was threads). You could NOT put a Sound Suppressor on that gun because it would mean TWO Evil Features exist on a Post Ban gun.

In order to use a sound suppressor you would have to put a Thumbhole Stock or a CA Compliant "Non Pistol Grip" Grip to remove the one "evil feature" ro get another "evil feature"

 

[BurtonRW]

So just to be clear... I have some pre-10/13 lowers and some post-10/13 lowers.

If I SBR the pre-10/13 lowers, they get a new mfg. date and then what... I have to immediately strip the current non-HBAR uppers and can't put any non-HBAR uppers back on ever again?

If I SBR the post-10/13 lowers, I lose nothing because they're already stuck w/ HBAR uppers in MD unless I put shorty uppers on them, which I can do in any profile or configuration I like because they're NFA weapons and no longer governed by the Firearms Safety Act?

I suppose I'll just buy a bunch of cheap HBARs to SBR, then.

Also... ProtegeV, tell me more about your theory on engraving (or not). PM if you'd like.

-Rob

 

[outrider58]

Except the eform page is down for the ATF No SBR'ing happening today it seems.

No too surprised. Probably crashed from the panic.
Try later.

 

[clandestine]

So just to be clear... I have some pre-10/13 lowers and some post-10/13 lowers.

If I SBR the pre-10/13 lowers, they get a new mfg. date and then what... I have to immediately strip the current non-HBAR uppers and can't put any non-HBAR uppers back on ever again?

If I SBR the post-10/13 lowers, I lose nothing because they're already stuck w/ HBAR uppers in MD unless I put shorty uppers on them, which I can do in any profile or configuration I like because they're NFA weapons and no longer governed by the Firearms Safety Act?

I suppose I'll just buy a bunch of cheap HBARs to SBR, then.

Also... ProtegeV, tell me more about your theory on engraving (or not). PM if you'd like.

-Rob

Im referring to how the ATF handles other laws and regs. I cannot say how the MSP views the issue.

 

[ericoak]

So just to be clear... I have some pre-10/13 lowers and some post-10/13 lowers.

If I SBR the pre-10/13 lowers, they get a new mfg. date and then what... I have to immediately strip the current non-HBAR uppers and can't put any non-HBAR uppers back on ever again?

If I SBR the post-10/13 lowers, I lose nothing because they're already stuck w/ HBAR uppers in MD unless I put shorty uppers on them, which I can do in any profile or configuration I like because they're NFA weapons and no longer governed by the Firearms Safety Act?

I suppose I'll just buy a bunch of cheap HBARs to SBR, then.

Also... ProtegeV, tell me more about your theory on engraving (or not). PM if you'd like.

-Rob

This is my understanding of MD law. As well.

 

[smdub]

So just to be clear... I have some pre-10/13 lowers and some post-10/13 lowers.

IANAL.
But the ATF views a SBR in two distinct states. As an SBR when it has a short upper on it and *NOT* a SBR when it it has a long upper on it. When you have a long upper on it you have manufactured nothing in their eyes. FWIW, You can even write them to permanently rescind the stamp if you like and *presto* it just like it was before. So my INTERPRETATION as to how MD sees it and what I have been doing:
1) A pre-Oct 2013 lower can forever have any profile >16" upper on it.
2) A pre-Oct 2013 lower that was SBR'ed post Oct2013 must abide by FSA2013 when its SBR'ed. When a >16" upper is on it, it reverts to #1 (its not a SBR.)
3) A post-Oct 2013 lower must always abide by FSA2013 limits (whether SBR'ed or not.)

 

[erwos]

I agree with Chad that, if you think there is an AWB coming down the pipe, you are way better off sitting on SBRs than rifles when that hits.

 

[HauptsAriba]

IANAL.
But the ATF views a SBR in two distinct states. As an SBR when it has a short upper on it and *NOT* a SBR when it it has a long upper on it. When you have a long upper on it you have manufactured nothing in their eyes. FWIW, You can even write them to permanently rescind the stamp if you like and *presto* it just like it was before. So my INTERPRETATION as to how MD sees it and what I have been doing:
1) A pre-Oct 2013 lower can forever have any profile >16" upper on it.
2) A pre-Oct 2013 lower that was SBR'ed post Oct2013 must abide by FSA2013 when its SBR'ed. When a >16" upper is on it, it reverts to #1 (its not a SBR.)
3) A post-Oct 2013 lower must always abide by FSA2013 limits (whether SBR'ed or not.)

I would have to agree with this, and hope it's correct. Otherwise, SBRing a pre oct13 lower would diminish the overall options of said item.

I'm thinking that the only rule is the 29> issue. Since it's no longer a long gun, it should not matter what profile the barrell is. I hope.....comments welcome.

 

[stu929]

I would gladly buy someone lunch if we could meet and help walk me through the Form 1 process. I purchased a trust and want to SBR at least my 300 BLK and hope to add a can but want to make sure I don't screw anything up.

 

[md123]

Assume money isn't an issue - is there any reason to not SBR all of my current ARs?

Can I SBR a post-FSA HBAR upper and do anything I want with it?

-Rob

Voluntary national registration & "introducing the man into your life".

Harder to sell NFA items if you ever planned to.

Prospect of 10yrs in federal prison and $250k fine if you or your family screw something up during transport or transfer.

Getting harassed at the range to "show your papers".

Other than that....

 

[protegeV]

Getting harassed by at the range to "show your papers".

Other than that....

Never heard of that happening, ever.

 

[Indiana Jones]

Never heard of that happening, ever.

Yep. I don't own anything NFA but have gone with friends and shot everything NFA you can imagine, dozens of times. In MD and out here. The only LE attention we drew was drooling Sheriff's Deputies.

 

[md123]

Never heard of that happening, ever.

Here's one recent example I've come across. Yea, could be a fairytale but not hard to find these on the interwebz.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1...nge_and_my_SBR_mix__My_range_day_.html&page=1

OP asked for "any reason" to reconsider so I just wanted to lay it out there. Probably not a likely problem but I'd want to know about the possibility if roles reversed.

 

[protegeV]

Here's one recent example I've come across. Yea, could be a fairytale but not hard to find these on the interwebz.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1...nge_and_my_SBR_mix__My_range_day_.html&page=1

OP asked for "any reason" to reconsider so I just wanted to lay it out there. Probably not a likely problem but I'd want to know about the possibility if roles reversed.

Even with that story, it's just a range commando being an *******. Not rogue atf agents doing random inspections at gun ranges...

 

[smdub]

I've had a RO at Hap Baker ask for suppressor papers. And I've been at the range in Blacksburg VA when the cops were called. Apparently someone nearby calls them when they hear mgs. Officers checked the man's paperwork (he was an 07ffl) and went on their way. Very polite. They were just responding to a call and doing their job. So it does happen.

 

[outrider58]

I've had a RO at Hap Baker ask for suppressor papers. And I've been at the range in Blacksburg VA when the cops were called. Apparently someone nearby calls them when they hear mgs. Officers checked the man's paperwork (he was an 07ffl) and went on their way. Very polite. They were just responding to a call and doing their job. So it does happen.

The second part is understandable. Douchy, but understandable.

 

[Major03]

ATF eform site is still down ((( Heavy volume I'm thinking. Dang, bad timing. One week earlier on the trust set up and lower transfer and I've have beat the surge.