An unlikely pro-carry story from The Atlantic

[teratos]

I think this would be a better step, culturally, if this was mandatory for ALL citizens, not just for CCW permits.

Should be taught in elementary school.

 

[Haides]

Should be taught in elementary school.

Don't know if you've seen this. They've got the right idea.

http://gunowners.wordpress.com/2012...nd-when-he-is-old-he-will-not-depart-from-it/

 

[teratos]

Don't know if you've seen this. They've got the right idea.

http://gunowners.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/train-up-a-child-in-the-way-he-should-go-and-when-he-is-old-he-will-not-depart-from-it/

Never seen it, but love it. Thanks for the link. It's how I approach my kids. They do not see guns as some mysterious thing. Teaching good, responsible gun handling at an early age would do more to cut back on accidents than requiring that each gun be sold with a lock. I have a drawer with quite a few gun locks I will never use, but I also have 2 kids who know a bit about how to safely handle a firearm.

 

[MDFF2008]

Excellent program, we as 2A supports I think sometimes do ourselves a disservice when we get so hyped up about the right being taken away that we fail to see that gun accidents do happen, and people do get hurt.

 

[Tyeraxus]

Should be taught in elementary school.

Absolutely, 100% true. I'd love to be competent enough that I could be an NRA Certified safety instructor by the time my kids (don't have any yet) turn seven so that we can have "firearms safety days" at least once a month, and allow other neighborhood kids/parents to tag along if they want. I heard a quote once that I think is relevant here - 'We are what we consistently do. Excellence, therefore, is a habit, not an act.'

 

[ea689c]

This was a great article. I sent the link to my anti-gun sister who was surprised as hell after all these years to learn that I was a gun guy (even after 10 years military service...). I hope it can help change her opinion about guns. But knowing my family probably not...lol

 

[Walter]

The article was okay..but the gun show "loophole" nonsense again ... DOJ and FBI studies have already shown that criminals obtain their guns from other means. Less than 1% of their guns are bought from gun shows.

 

[jonnyl]

I had mixed feelings about this story at first. It seemed great, but the thing that really bothered me was that it seemed the author's real preference would be to get rid of all the guns (or at least go to the Canada solution), but since that seems impossible we need to learn to live with them. Of course, there are million reasons I disagree with that philosophy.

However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that this guy is EXACTLY the type of person that we're trying to convert. Someone who in general wouldn't consider themselves pro-gun or a gun lover, but isn't a blinded anti. It's someone who actually looked at the data, saw there was no blood in the streets, and has the personal feeling that if in a bad situation he'd rather have a gun than not have one.

Thanks for posting!

 

[esqappellate]

I had mixed feelings about this story at first. It seemed great, but the thing that really bothered me was that it seemed the author's real preference would be to get rid of all the guns (or at least go to the Canada solution), but since that seems impossible we need to learn to live with them. Of course, there are million reasons I disagree with that philosophy.

However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that this guy is EXACTLY the type of person that we're trying to convert. Someone who in general wouldn't consider themselves pro-gun or a gun lover, but isn't a blinded anti. It's someone who actually looked at the data, saw there was no blood in the streets, and has the personal feeling that if in a bad situation he'd rather have a gun than not have one.

Thanks for posting!

Exactly right. The most important part of this story is where it appeared: The Atlantic Monthly

 

[Mr H]

I had mixed feelings about this story at first. It seemed great, but the thing that really bothered me was that it seemed the author's real preference would be to get rid of all the guns (or at least go to the Canada solution), but since that seems impossible we need to learn to live with them. Of course, there are million reasons I disagree with that philosophy.

However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that this guy is EXACTLY the type of person that we're trying to convert. Someone who in general wouldn't consider themselves pro-gun or a gun lover, but isn't a blinded anti. It's someone who actually looked at the data, saw there was no blood in the streets, and has the personal feeling that if in a bad situation he'd rather have a gun than not have one.

Thanks for posting!

Exactly right. The most important part of this story is where it appeared: The Atlantic Monthly

Both right on where I was, and precisely why I thought it interesting enough to share.

 

[esqappellate]

Both right on where I was, and precisely why I thought it interesting enough to share.

Much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[gmhowell]

Exactly right. The most important part of this story is where it appeared: The Atlantic Monthly

Glad some have noticed this. Lots of people poopooing the article because it doesn't sound like PR from SAF or NRA ignoring what a mind blower this will be to someone flipping through the pages of that magazine.

 

[sdOne]

This is why I especially enjoyed the article. It doesn't sound like PR from SAF.

Cheers.

Glad some have noticed this. Lots of people poopooing the article because it doesn't sound like PR from SAF or NRA ignoring what a mind blower this will be to someone flipping through the pages of that magazine.

 

[rmiddle]

You know what a lot of pro-gun people say about gun control, it is hitting your target. It doesn't HAVE to be a bad thing. Before I get impaled, think about it. We want law-abiding citizens to have unfettered access to firearms. We want criminals and people with significant mental illness to be restricted from possessing firearms. (I know a few people will argue that felons have paid their debt to society, I don't see it that way for all of them). There needs to be a better system. I think all of the RESTRICTED people can easily be put into a nationwide database. If you aren't in it, here is your gun, have a nice day.

They have that it is called a background check and in more civilized states like PA and VA you can do that. It is only the crime infested states like Maryland, DC, New York, etc. that add in all these extra restrictions.

Thanks
Robert

 

[rmiddle]

Good article, and I think the author hit it on the head. Guns aren't going away, and an armed, mature citizenry will by its very nature deter crime to an extent. However, he does have a point that the pro-carry side will have to give some, too. For example, I do think that training (such as safety and the acceptable use of force) is a very good idea, and agreeing to make at least the safety portion mandatory for carry permits (as long as said training is free/negligible cost and abundantly available, such as classes every Saturday at the local range for $5 to provide for the ammo used and instructor's time for example) would go a long way in a state- or national-level debate.

Shoot, mandatory training fits in with the 2A as well, as I've read that Virginia mandated militia drills weekly (after church services) as early as the 1650s. Wouldn't a one-time safety class (or even a yearly re-up) fit well into the idea of "constitutional carry" given that lens?

Most of the Utah course are costing between $75 and $150 plus the cost of the permit $51. VA training requirement adds about $50 more because of the live fire requirement. I consider them pretty cheap overall but $5 wouldn't even cover the cost of ammo in most ranges.

With this said I am a firm believer that proper handing of a firearm training is very important. Although most of the mandatory stuff I have attended have been a joke.

Thanks
Robert

 

[dfens42]

I'm an Atlantic subscriber for articles like this, they normally produce some well thought out pieces. And whoever mentioned it earlier hit the nail on the head, this is exactly the kind of person we need out there espousing the need for CCW. Appeal to logic and reason, move past the knee jerk anti-gun reactions.

 

[SirMrManGuy]

The article was okay..but the gun show "loophole" nonsense again ... DOJ and FBI studies have already shown that criminals obtain their guns from other means. Less than 1% of their guns are bought from gun shows.

I hate it when people say "gun show loophole" as much as the next guy, but one has to admit that there is no real way to know in a face to face sale that the buyer is not a criminal and there is no real way to know if they are subsequently using that guy legally or illegally.

Even though I've sold long arms face to face through people I've met on this very site, I've always worried a bit and honestly wouldn't have minded a simple and accessible system for doing background checks on my buyers if only for the piece of mind that I made reasonable effort of ensuring that the buyer wasn't a criminal. We all are fairly comfortable with NICS (federal check, not marylands BS), so if it could be expanded and maybe put on a public website or something and kept anonymous/locked down from tracking/registration, I'd support that.

 

[SouthCo]

I hate it when people say "gun show loophole" as much as the next guy, but one has to admit that there is no real way to know in a face to face sale that the buyer is not a criminal and there is no real way to know if they are subsequently using that guy legally or illegally.

Even though I've sold long arms face to face through people I've met on this very site, I've always worried a bit and honestly wouldn't have minded a simple and accessible system for doing background checks on my buyers if only for the piece of mind that I made reasonable effort of ensuring that the buyer wasn't a criminal. We all are fairly comfortable with NICS (federal check, not marylands BS), so if it could be expanded and maybe put on a public website or something and kept anonymous/locked down from tracking/registration, I'd support that.

I'm new to this forum, but not guns. I don't understand the gun show loophole. They run the same checks on unregulated guns just like a gun shop transaction. And if you want a regulated gun. You have to wait the 7 days and go to their physical shop to pick it up. My cousin bought a .22 at the PG SGS a few years back and they ran his info before selling it to him. So what is the difference?

 

[Mr H]

I'm new to this forum, but not guns. I don't understand the gun show loophole. They run the same checks on unregulated guns just like a gun shop transaction. And if you want a regulated gun. You have to wait the 7 days and go to their physical shop to pick it up. My cousin bought a .22 at the PG SGS a few years back and they ran his info before selling it to him. So what is the difference?

None.

You know this, and we know this.

The masses, however, do not.

The media takes one thing--private FTF sales (where legal)--and conflates it with illegal gun use/ownership.

It's a long road, and we may never get all the way there... but we keep tying.

 

[SouthCo]

Should be taught in elementary school.

I agree, but you can't even mention God so I doubt they ever allow you to mention gun safety. Our kids would be better off if they could discuss both.

My kids pediatrician, when we 1st started going, asked if there were guns in the home. We said yes. The pediatrician has reinforced what we teach the kids that you don't play with guns. I remember him asking my sons, "what do you do if you find a gun or another kid is playing with one?" They said "not to touch it and go tell an adult." I was so proud of them. Our pediatrician is great and I like the approach he took.