All things 350 Legend

[Hibs]

Anyone need 350 legend brass? I've been chucking mine in the recycle bucket, but can grab it if someone here can use it. I shoot all factory loads, mostly white box Winchester from wal mart.

Also got a short barrel 350 legend AR upper if anyone wants to play with it. I mostly use my Ruger American these days.

 

[john_bud]

Anyone need 350 legend brass? I've been chucking mine in the recycle bucket, but can grab it if someone here can use it. I shoot all factory loads, mostly white box Winchester from wal mart.

Also got a short barrel 350 legend AR upper if anyone wants to play with it. I mostly use my Ruger American these days.

Actually, i could use some.

 

[john_bud]

Looking for advice with sub-sonic 350L and CFE BLK.

Lee 200gr bullet, sized to 0.356, gas checked, powder coated and loaded short to 2.030" with 14gr of cfe blk. Shot from a bear creek 16" upper carbine gas length.

The loading cycles with a reduced power carbine buffer spring (which is good)

But the speeds across the chrono are all over the place. Between 800 and 1250 fps. there's a lot of unburnt powder too.

This is my first attempt at reloading subs for an AR. Obviously... it ain't going as well as it could!

The internet says cfe blk produces tight groups, but not the way I'm doing it!

Advice requested! Thanks

 

[Growler215]

I've been able to get acceptable SDs with CFE BLK in my 350L AR pistol (1053 fps, SD 12.2 fps) using 15.7 gr under a 250 gr Sub-X bullet using CCI #41 primers. Don't know how temperature sensitive it is, though.

My best guess is that your bullets are taking significantly different amounts of force to get moving because of some differences at the brass/bullet interface. Are you crimping them? If not that might help some. I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die for that.

 

[john_bud]

I've been able to get acceptable SDs with CFE BLK in my 350L AR pistol (1053 fps, SD 12.2 fps) using 15.7 gr under a 250 gr Sub-X bullet using CCI #41 primers. Don't know how temperature sensitive it is, though.

My best guess is that your bullets are taking significantly different amounts of force to get moving because of some differences at the brass/bullet interface. Are you crimping them? If not that might help some. I use a Lee Factory Crimp Die for that.

Yes i am crimping. .my process is typical for a single station press. Expand the primed clean brass. Hand measure powder, in with a funnel. Seat bullet. Then crimp.

I'll try a few with tighter crimp.

 

[Growler215]

It sounds like you have satisfactory neck tension. Probably not causing your issue.

I hate to tell you this, but I think you are shy of the point where CFE BLK is going to work well. From everything I've read, this powder likes a full case in order to burn consistently. I've gotten it to work with 250 gr bullets. With 200 gr bullets, you might need to load to supersonic velocities to get good SDs.

One option that might work is Accurate 5744. It's supposed to burn well with lower case fill than most rifle powders. I loaded 5 sub-x 350L rounds with 5 different charges of A 5744, and it ejected for each charge weight and locked back at the highest charge, which was about 1050 fps. This is with a standard buffer and spring, pistol length gas in a 12.5" AR.

Other than that, something like Lil' Gun or H110 could work, but you might have to remove the weights in your buffer since they don't generate as much gas as CFE BLK. My experience with Lil' Gun shows it to have position sensitivity in low case fill applications, so something like Puff-Lon might help that problem.

 

[john_bud]

It sounds like you have satisfactory neck tension. Probably not causing your issue.

I hate to tell you this, but I think you are shy of the point where CFE BLK is going to work well. From everything I've read, this powder likes a full case in order to burn consistently. I've gotten it to work with 250 gr bullets. With 200 gr bullets, you might need to load to supersonic velocities to get good SDs.

One option that might work is Accurate 5744. It's supposed to burn well with lower case fill than most rifle powders. I loaded 5 sub-x 350L rounds with 5 different charges of A 5744, and it ejected for each charge weight and locked back at the highest charge, which was about 1050 fps. This is with a standard buffer and spring, pistol length gas in a 12.5" AR.

Other than that, something like Lil' Gun or H110 could work, but you might have to remove the weights in your buffer since they don't generate as much gas as CFE BLK. My experience with Lil' Gun shows it to have position sensitivity in low case fill applications, so something like Puff-Lon might help that problem.

I agree with your assessment. Trying 1680 now. I do also have a 245-ish grain mold on order, but that's 5+ weeks out .

 

[john_bud]

Ok,got the 1680 last night.
Using the lee 358-200gr bullets, powder coated.
14gr went 1089, 1107
13gr went 989, 1041
12gr... wouldn't feed due to unburnt powder clogging up the chamber.

Ok, 13.0 too low.

Switched from SRP to magnum small rifle primers.

14gr went 1109, 1160
13.5 gr went 1064, 1125

Not going to win any contest with them, but 13.5gr cycled and locked back, so thats a win.

Made 16 rounds with 13.7gr of 1680 and magnum primers to see when (if) it would get too dirty with unburnt powder to run them. Well, it ran them all. Stoppages were from magazine angle in the lower.

Im hoping when the mold for 245gr bullets with a pointier nose comes in, it will be better. Should be a couple more grain to get that to 1050ish and that should run a touch hotter. (I hope)

 

[atblis]

I went away from the ball powders for suppressed subsonic stuff due to the sand like gritty fouling that you get. Nature of the beast it seems.

 

[Speedluvn]

Ok,got the 1680 last night.
Using the lee 358-200gr bullets, powder coated.
14gr went 1089, 1107
13gr went 989, 1041
12gr... wouldn't feed due to unburnt powder clogging up the chamber.

Ok, 13.0 too low.

Switched from SRP to magnum small rifle primers.

14gr went 1109, 1160
13.5 gr went 1064, 1125

Not going to win any contest with them, but 13.5gr cycled and locked back, so thats a win.

Made 16 rounds with 13.7gr of 1680 and magnum primers to see when (if) it would get too dirty with unburnt powder to run them. Well, it ran them all. Stoppages were from magazine angle in the lower.

Im hoping when the mold for 245gr bullets with a pointier nose comes in, it will be better. Should be a couple more grain to get that to 1050ish and that should run a touch hotter. (I hope)

Are you resizing the .358 - 200gr bullets?

 

[john_bud]

Yes. Down to 356

Are you resizing the .358 - 200gr bullets?

 

[atblis]

250 gr SubX on sale

HORNADY 35c(.357) 250gr SUB-X BULLET (350 LGND) 100/BX - Graf & Sons

Sub-X® (Subsonic — eXpanding) bullets deliver big results without a big bang! Designed to provide deep penetration below the speed of sound, Sub-X® features a lead core. Long grooves in its gilding metal jacket combine with its flat profile and the patented Flex Tip® insert within the bullet’s...

www.grafs.com

 

[Speedluvn]

250 gr SubX on sale

HORNADY 35c(.357) 250gr SUB-X BULLET (350 LGND) 100/BX - Graf & Sons

Sub-X® (Subsonic — eXpanding) bullets deliver big results without a big bang! Designed to provide deep penetration below the speed of sound, Sub-X® features a lead core. Long grooves in its gilding metal jacket combine with its flat profile and the patented Flex Tip® insert within the bullet’s...

www.grafs.com

Curious as to the .357 diameter. Will these projectiles need to be resized to .356/.355 before being loaded into 350 Legend cases?

 

[atblis]

No. They work fine. I suspect 350 Legend was quietly changed to 0.357 due to some legal stuff with that being the minimum bullet diameter for deer hunting in some states. The SAAMI spec for bullets for the 350 Legend is 0.357" -0.003". If you're gun is chambered to SAAMI specifications, it should be fine. Most likely, you'll want an expander specific to 0.357" bullets rather than a 9x19 expander.

Also, try ~15.0 gr of N120 for the 250 grainers. I have a suspicion that might end up being the best subsonic 350 legend powder.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/350-Legend-Public-Introduction-Rev-2021-06-04.pdf

 

[john_bud]

The mold from accurate molds came in ... 4 weeks early. (36-245s) So, i put it to use! Poured up some 243grain bullets. The design is allowing them to be loaded to 2.24" OAL. And the smaller diameter nose means they are cycling flawlessly in my AR. I really didn't like loading the 200gr LEE bullets short to 2.00".

The goal is to make reliably cycling subsonic rounds and these are getting me close. Very close. I still haven't found the best powder, but 1680 is close.

12.5 gr to 14 gr with small rifle primers and magnum SRP were trialed. ALL were cycling and locking back, which is good. But... velocities are still not as stable as desired with the ball power.

Thinking VV N120 may be better? Suggestions?

 

[[Kev308]]

Has anyone found data about twist rate of the barrel and it's preferred bullet grain?

So far I have shot 145gr-180gr from a 1:16 twist from a 16" barrel. Trying to whittle down a hunting cartridge. Seems 145 target is the least accurate.
150-180 has been close to the same accuracy.

 

[Speedluvn]

No. They work fine. I suspect 350 Legend was quietly changed to 0.357 due to some legal stuff with that being the minimum bullet diameter for deer hunting in some states. The SAAMI spec for bullets for the 350 Legend is 0.357" -0.003". If you're gun is chambered to SAAMI specifications, it should be fine. Most likely, you'll want an expander specific to 0.357" bullets rather than a 9x19 expander.

Also, try ~15.0 gr of N120 for the 250 grainers. I have a suspicion that might end up being the best subsonic 350 legend powder.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/350-Legend-Public-Introduction-Rev-2021-06-04.pdf

I was wondering the same thing about the diameter dimensions.

 

[Speedluvn]

Has anyone found data about twist rate of the barrel and it's preferred bullet grain?

So far I have shot 145gr-180gr from a 1:16 twist from a 16" barrel. Trying to whittle down a hunting cartridge. Seems 145 target is the least accurate.
150-180 has been close to the same accuracy.

What 180 grain projectile have you found?

 

[[Kev308]]

I

What 180 grain projectile have you found?

I was shooting factory ammo. Just doing a quick search reloading bullets: Winchester 180 gr soft point seems to be the only game in town and that's either back ordered or discontinued.

Also notice every 350 legend rifle has 1:16 twist.

 

[john_bud]

I have shot a couple boxes of these at higher power for hunting rounds. Sized to 0.3565 - 0.3570. Cfe blk was pretty well behaved.