All 9mm AR legal?

[DetectiveWildman]

Or just the ones that have the dedicated 9mm lower? I'm kinda fuzzy on this, tossing around the idea of a cmmg guard and cz scorpion. I know the cz is legal, just making sure about the others. I think they are only on the danger evil list if they have adapted magwells?

 

[danb]

No need for dedicated lower. Colt mags +_ adapter is ok too.

 

[StantonCree]

I don’t see why the guard wouldn’t be legal. It’s a 9mm AR pistol which is perfectly legal

 

[outrider58]

I don’t see why the guard wouldn’t be legal. It’s a 9mm AR pistol which is perfectly legal

As far as building one, very legal. Buying one already made, HQL reguired, 7 day wait, and has to be on the handgun list(?). I'll admit, I am kind of ignorant on this last point as I don't have an HQL and am not up on all the regs.

 

[DetectiveWildman]

Carbine lengths are ok to? Anyone have a guard or a mk9? Are they as sweet as they look?

 

[knastera]

AR rifle in 9mm with a 16" barrel and 29" OAL is fine. AR pistol must be on the roster unless you build one yourself.

 

[danb]

AR pistol would need to be on the handgun roster. CMMG MK9 is on the roster, the MKg is not. So someone would need to get it added.

 

[Smokescreen]

I think you have your answer but I will throw in my 2 cents.

If you purchase an AR pistol, it must be on the approved handguns list. If one you wants isn't currently on the list, either you or your FFL can request for it to be reviewed and added to the list. If you build the AR Pistol, you just put the lower through the 77r process. This applies to dedicated lowers or ones using conversion kits.

If you purchase a complete rifle, what I have been told is that only the dedicated 9mm (or any pistol caliber) builds are legal to transfer. If it can be converted back to 5.56, then it must comply with the HBAR rule or its a no go. I think there may be an argument around parts not being 100% compatible so its not a clone, but it comes down to how the FFL decides to handle it.

 

[danb]

I think you have your answer but I will throw in my 2 cents.

If you purchase an AR pistol, it must be on the approved handguns list. If one you wants isn't currently on the list, either you or your FFL can request for it to be reviewed and added to the list. If you build the AR Pistol, you just put the lower through the 77r process. This applies to dedicated lowers or ones using conversion kits.

If you purchase a complete rifle, what I have been told is that only the dedicated 9mm (or any pistol caliber) builds are legal to transfer. If it can be converted back to 5.56, then it must comply with the HBAR rule or its a no go. I think there may be an argument around parts not being 100% compatible so its not a clone, but it comes down to how the FFL decides to handle it.

who said this? It makes no sense. AR lowers are only convertible back to 300 BLK.

 

[Biggfoot44]

There are also removable 9mm mag adaptors , that fit into standard 5.56 mag wells .

 

[outrider58]

I think you have your answer but I will throw in my 2 cents.

If you purchase an AR pistol, it must be on the approved handguns list. If one you wants isn't currently on the list, either you or your FFL can request for it to be reviewed and added to the list. If you build the AR Pistol, you just put the lower through the 77r process. This applies to dedicated lowers or ones using conversion kits.

If you purchase a complete rifle, what I have been told is that only the dedicated 9mm (or any pistol caliber) builds are legal to transfer. If it can be converted back to 5.56, then it must comply with the HBAR rule or its a no go. I think there may be an argument around parts not being 100% compatible so its not a clone, but it comes down to how the FFL decides to handle it.

While standard AR(5.56) lowers require 77r/7 day wait, dedicated AR pistol caliber lowers are cash and carry. No waiting period.

No AR rifle can be converted into a pistol if it was transferred as a "rifle". Even a dedicated AR PCC(carbine) can not be converted into a 9mm or any other pistol caliber pistol if it was transferred as a rifle(carbine).

 

[DetectiveWildman]

So basically since I have no intentions of buying/making into a pistol or sbr a 9mm AR with a dedicated 9mm magwell should be g2g, cash and carry correct?

 

[outrider58]

So basically since I have no intentions of buying/making into a pistol or sbr a 9mm AR with a dedicated 9mm magwell should be g2g, cash and carry correct?

Complete gun or just a lower? I'm not positive on a complete PCC, but a PC dedicated lower is C&C.

 

[DetectiveWildman]

Complete pcc. I'm only asking because of the cmmg I'm interested in. The other is a scorpion carbine, which is already on the list as not banned g2g. Scorpion might be worth it for lack of headache alone!

 

[Smokescreen]

who said this? It makes no sense. AR lowers are only convertible back to 300 BLK.

After discussion with 2 different FFL's, I called the MSP Licensing Division myself and requested clarification.

My specific question was if the complete rifle uses a standard AR15 lower but an upper that is different than 5.56/223, would it be banned. I was told that if you could swap the upper and the lower still accepted the standard 5.56 mags, then yes it would be unless the barrel was an HBAR and did not meet the other definitions of a copycat.

Not saying I agree with this or if its the universally accepted interpretation of the law but its what the corporal told me and what i've been operating under until I hear a better official interpretation.

 

[Smokescreen]

While standard AR(5.56) lowers require 77r/7 day wait, dedicated AR pistol caliber lowers are cash and carry. No waiting period.

No AR rifle can be converted into a pistol if it was transferred as a "rifle". Even a dedicated AR PCC(carbine) can not be converted into a 9mm or any other pistol caliber pistol if it was transferred as a rifle(carbine).

I'm sorry but I think you are mistaken. If you look at the MSP Dealer Advisory from May 2014, the MSP states that all stripped lowers must go through the 77r. It does not give an out for pistol calibers. It does state that you do not need an HQL for a lower which is good at least.

I never said that you could convert from rifle to pistol. I said you can change calibers which is perfectly legal as long as you are abiding by FSA of 2013 (HBAR, Overall length, copycat identifications). It doesn't matter if its to another rifle caliber or a pistol caliber. Just like you an change calibers on a Sig p320 pistol or TC Contender (rifle or pistol) and not worry about the caliber it was registered under.

 

[outrider58]

I'm sorry but I think you are mistaken. If you look at the MSP Dealer Advisory from May 2014, the MSP states that all stripped lowers must go through the 77r. It does not give an out for pistol calibers. It does state that you do not need an HQL for a lower which is good at least.

I never said that you could convert from rifle to pistol. I said you can change calibers which is perfectly legal as long as you are abiding by FSA of 2013 (HBAR, Overall length, copycat identifications). It doesn't matter if its to another rifle caliber or a pistol caliber. Just like you an change calibers on a Sig p320 pistol or TC Contender (rifle or pistol) and not worry about the caliber it was registered under.

I think you may have gotten some bum info from MSP(who woulda thunk it!). The only stripped lowers that are not C&C are ones that facilitate the 5.56/.223 caliber. All the rest, 9mm, .40 Cal, .45ACP, .308/7.62 are all OTC-C&C(cash and carry).

If you purchase a complete rifle, what I have been told is that only the dedicated 9mm (or any pistol caliber) builds are legal to transfer. If it can be converted back to 5.56, then it must comply with the HBAR rule or its a no go. I think there may be an argument around parts not being 100% compatible so its not a clone, but it comes down to how the FFL decides to handle it.
_

I'm afraid you lost me there.

 

[danb]

My specific question was if the complete rifle uses a standard AR15 lower but an upper that is different than 5.56/223, would it be banned. I was told that if you could swap the upper and the lower still accepted the standard 5.56 mags, then yes it would be unless the barrel was an HBAR and did not meet the other definitions of a copycat.

You got bad advice. 9MM rifles (uppers) are blowback action, not even DI like a normal rifle-caliber AR. No need for hbar. piston and blowback "AR" s are not clones for the purpose of the assault rifle list.

 

[DetectiveWildman]

This is probably lar for the course with MD gun laws but hell I'm more confused now than when I started!

 

[outrider58]

This is probably lar for the course with MD gun laws but hell I'm more confused now than when I started!

It's not that bad. What do you want to buy or build? That much is pretty clear.