AGC Action Shooting - June Registrations

[Squaregrouper]

Megarms, Stoveman and Art3, I say this respectfully...
The 10/22 people with BX25 and other "high cap" magazines were slowing down the course something awful. I entered once with my 10/22 and haven't done so since.
Stoveman- I'm guessing you had a bunch of rimfire guys. With all due respect, your team was really slowing down the flow. We (ART3's squad) got bitched out by the following squad for some RO coaching and not calling our range cold. We couldn't move forward, so our RO's thought it would be a good time for some edumacation.
I am in favor of removing rimfire rifle from The Outlaw Steel Challenge- They all (mine included) seem to be a choke point for the flow of the day.

 

[boss281]

The bx25 and the 15 round magazines are notorious problems. I gave up on 10/22s years ago. That said, if you can stabilize the magazine so it has a firm fit I bet your double feeds and extraction problems go away. The 10 round magazines almost never gave me a problem. I did a quick look on YouTube and saw there are several videos that explain how to shim the magazines.

Of course, this assumes you've kept the gun and magazines clean, the gun lubed, and have found a reliable brand of 22 round that cycles well.

my guess is you guys know all this, of course, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

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[Stoveman]

Megarms, Stoveman and Art3, I say this respectfully...
The 10/22 people with BX25 and other "high cap" magazines were slowing down the course something awful. I entered once with my 10/22 and haven't done so since.
Stoveman- I'm guessing you had a bunch of rimfire guys. With all due respect, your team was really slowing down the flow. We (ART3's squad) got bitched out by the following squad for some RO coaching and not calling our range cold. We couldn't move forward, so our RO's thought it would be a good time for some edumacation.
I am in favor of removing rimfire rifle from The Outlaw Steel Challenge- They all (mine included) seem to be a choke point for the flow of the day.

Our squad had the double whammy of lots of rimfire and lots of newbs. Only five in our squad had holsters and mag carriers so when you shoot from low ready on the big stages you're digging around for mag after mag in your gym shorts. We actually had one guy run out of ammo (5 or 6 mags) before he completed stage 5 and par timed out.

 

[BRONZ]

Man I have to go to one of these.

 

[GolfR]

For all those who may have observed slowdowns on Sat, I think it’s important to put those perceptions into context. Despite a larger than normal number of issues with rimfire shooters, we still finished the whole match and were cleaned up before 2pm. For a 6 stage match, that isn’t bad.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Man I have to go to one of these.

It is a blast (pardon the pun)

For all those who may have observed slowdowns on Sat, I think it’s important to put those perceptions into context. Despite a larger than normal number of issues with rimfire shooters, we still finished the whole match and were cleaned up before 2pm. For a 6 stage match, that isn’t bad.

Very good point. We probably only noticed the rimfire jams because the rest of the event ran like a well oiled machine.

 

[gmharle]

Megarms, Stoveman and Art3, I say this respectfully...
The 10/22 people with BX25 and other "high cap" magazines were slowing down the course something awful. I entered once with my 10/22 and haven't done so since.
Stoveman- I'm guessing you had a bunch of rimfire guys. With all due respect, your team was really slowing down the flow. We (ART3's squad) got bitched out by the following squad for some RO coaching and not calling our range cold. We couldn't move forward, so our RO's thought it would be a good time for some edumacation.
I am in favor of removing rimfire rifle from The Outlaw Steel Challenge- They all (mine included) seem to be a choke point for the flow of the day.

I was in the following squad and didn't hear anyone bitch anyone out about the coaching going on. I only heard people from your squad realize that we were waiting and letting the "coaches" know that it was time to move on. I can't imagine any of the guys on our squad doing that. It seemed like a good group.

 

[Squaregrouper]

I was in the following squad and didn't hear anyone bitch anyone out about the coaching going on. I only heard people from your squad realize that we were waiting and letting the "coaches" know that it was time to move on. I can't imagine any of the guys on our squad doing that. It seemed like a good group.

It was at Stage 2. We were waiting for Stage 3 to be clear so we could move on. During that time, one of our RO's was giving a lesson on his method of gripping a pistol. The group behind us (3 female shooters) had 2 guys get vocal about us calling the range cold so they could paint the steel and start shooting. Maybe "bitched out" was a strong term, but they were clearly not happy that we kept the lane while waiting for the next lane to open. Art3 was standing next to me when it happened.

 

[gmharle]

It was at Stage 2. We were waiting for Stage 3 to be clear so we could move on. During that time, one of our RO's was giving a lesson on his method of gripping a pistol. The group behind us (3 female shooters) had 2 guys get vocal about us calling the range cold so they could paint the steel and start shooting. Maybe "bitched out" was a strong term, but they were clearly not happy that we kept the lane while waiting for the next lane to open. Art3 was standing next to me when it happened.

I guess I just missed that. I didn't realize that anyone on our squad seemed bothered. It didn't seem like a big deal to me that someone was training on grip. It wasn't any real hold up.

 

[MEGARMS]

It was at Stage 2. We were waiting for Stage 3 to be clear so we could move on. During that time, one of our RO's was giving a lesson on his method of gripping a pistol. The group behind us (3 female shooters) had 2 guys get vocal about us calling the range cold so they could paint the steel and start shooting. Maybe "bitched out" was a strong term, but they were clearly not happy that we kept the lane while waiting for the next lane to open. Art3 was standing next to me when it happened.

Maybe they were irritated that your squad didn't paint the steel for them?

Assuming the bay in front of your squad was still in use, I would have politely referred them to the pre match social distancing email, specifically paragraph 2.

2. Social Distancing - For all intents and purposes, each squad is its own 10 person event occupying its own bay. Do not wander from bay to bay and be sure to wait until the squad in front of you has finished and moved on prior to moving with your squad.

These are good constructive criticisms and probably the most common complaint amongst shooters at all different venues. There are a ton of variables that go into having the perfectly balanced match; stage design/length, maintaining consistent number/skill level of shooters per squad, and then praying to the rimfire gods for the barometric pressure to be in the acceptable range on match day.

Stage design is the easiest one to control, but still challenging; especially when building the Outlaw stages. Last minute cancellations/no shows are also often times a big disrupter to the flow. Very few shooters are interested in switching squads to help balance things out. I get it, I would like to shoot with my buddies too.

There are some changes coming to address some of the flow issues, specifically in the area of how we are going to handle malfunctioning firearms. Stay tuned.

 

[rbird7282]

Yesterday was a great day indeed. As far as I can tell, everyone left with a smile on their face. Paul did an awesome job preparing the D Day tribute and all of the volunteers kept the lead heading in the right direction.

Sure would like to see someone arrange a rimfire challenge on a different day. Maybe down the road at some point.

The young kid (around 10?) in my squad would probably win it. He shot incredibly fast.


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[erwos]

There are some changes coming to address some of the flow issues, specifically in the area of how we are going to handle malfunctioning firearms. Stay tuned.

How is it handled currently?

 

[MEGARMS]

How is it handled currently?

inconsistently

 

[MEGARMS]

The young kid (around 10?) in my squad would probably win it. He shot incredibly fast.


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I hear he was quite something.

 

[erwos]

I hear he was quite something.

Paul seemed pretty damned impressed with him when he talked about him at the class on Sunday. Anyone catch any video? I'd like to show my son a peer doing some competitive shooting.

 

[photoracer]

Plenty of videos of junior shooters on Facebook and Youtube. All of us serious older rimfire and steel challenge shooters got beat up at Lewistown by a junior we all know this last Sunday. Hard to overcome good eyes, fast reflexes, and youth (and lots more time to practice). By the time many get to the 13-15 YO range they are already world class speed shooters even if they are still only shooting rimfire.

 

[Art3]

I didn't think the couple minutes of education was really a big incident. Given a chance to do it over again, maybe we could have been at the handling bench. I'm pretty sure the guy with the paint can in his hand itching to spray was in our squad. We were kind of between the hammer and anvil, as the squad ahead of us still had a few shooters to go. I guess we could have cleared that bay and just milled around in the road for a while? Like I said, it didn't seem like a big deal to me at the time.

Some squads move faster than others...I think that is just the nature of their makeup. Someone with a PCC who shoots fast, doesn't need a mag change for the entire stage, and gets back to low ready for the next string before their previous time is even entered (there were a couple in my squad) is certainly going to use less overall time (both on and off the clock) than someone who has stoppages, changes mags between every single string, or (heaven forbid) has a revolver Some shooters who are fast on the clock spend a good bit of pre-beep (or pre "Load and Make Ready) time taking practice draws and sight pictures, fiddling with their optics or doing some sort of quick mediation to get their head straight before they load or put their hands up.

Maybe the match director could shuffle the squads so that they all had an equal number of rimfires vs. PCC's...but he would definitely need a raise in pay for that, as well as putting up with the bitching about not being able to shoot with their friends. I'm fortunate to feel like I have friends in every squad, but I'd be a little grumpy if I couldn't shoot with my wife

I do understand and sympathize (or empathize...I can never remember which it is ) with Stoveman's situation. He and Gryphon are good, fast, competitive shooters, and dealing with a bunch of malfunctioning newbs would get tedious...especially with my squad breathing down their backs But...as awesome as it has become () this is still a grassroots kind of event that I don't think is even a year old (is it?). We need the newbs. I'm betting some of them will have better gear next time...and maybe they'll be in another squad...like mine

Admittedly, I'm really a "just happy to be here kind of guy," especially in this sport. I would much rather everyone have a safe, good time than worry about the prize money. That probably won't make me an effective RO for more advanced/aggressive competitions...but this is where we are now. Sure, the heat was getting to me (especially towards the end, after running the big stages I don't know how many times, and with the sun coming out). Maybe I should have hustled along some of the meditating/optic fiddling shooters along with a hastier, "Shooter Ready!?" each string, and been able to finish up a minute or two earlier overall. But, to me, the value of that minute or two for the whole day vs. rattling their routine and making them have a bad time (or worse) just doesn't seem worth it.


Despite getting sunburned (and coming home to a lecture about sunscreen ), missing out on lunch with the cool guys (thanks Chinavirus for keeping the restaurants closed), and my legs still being sore today from running...I thought it was a pretty good way to spend a Saturday (and it didn't even cost me a lot in ammo $$...cuz I was shooting rimfire )

 

[Stoveman]

I didn't think the couple minutes of education was really a big incident. Given a chance to do it over again, maybe we could have been at the handling bench. I'm pretty sure the guy with the paint can in his hand itching to spray was in our squad. We were kind of between the hammer and anvil, as the squad ahead of us still had a few shooters to go. I guess we could have cleared that bay and just milled around in the road for a while? Like I said, it didn't seem like a big deal to me at the time.

Some squads move faster than others...I think that is just the nature of their makeup. Someone with a PCC who shoots fast, doesn't need a mag change for the entire stage, and gets back to low ready for the next string before their previous time is even entered (there were a couple in my squad) is certainly going to use less overall time (both on and off the clock) than someone who has stoppages, changes mags between every single string, or (heaven forbid) has a revolver Some shooters who are fast on the clock spend a good bit of pre-beep (or pre "Load and Make Ready) time taking practice draws and sight pictures, fiddling with their optics or doing some sort of quick mediation to get their head straight before they load or put their hands up.

Maybe the match director could shuffle the squads so that they all had an equal number of rimfires vs. PCC's...but he would definitely need a raise in pay for that, as well as putting up with the bitching about not being able to shoot with their friends. I'm fortunate to feel like I have friends in every squad, but I'd be a little grumpy if I couldn't shoot with my wife

I do understand and sympathize (or empathize...I can never remember which it is ) with Stoveman's situation. He and Gryphon are good, fast, competitive shooters, and dealing with a bunch of malfunctioning newbs would get tedious...especially with my squad breathing down their backs But...as awesome as it has become () this is still a grassroots kind of event that I don't think is even a year old (is it?). We need the newbs. I'm betting some of them will have better gear next time...and maybe they'll be in another squad...like mine

Admittedly, I'm really a "just happy to be here kind of guy," especially in this sport. I would much rather everyone have a safe, good time than worry about the prize money. That probably won't make me an effective RO for more advanced/aggressive competitions...but this is where we are now. Sure, the heat was getting to me (especially towards the end, after running the big stages I don't know how many times, and with the sun coming out). Maybe I should have hustled along some of the meditating/optic fiddling shooters along with a hastier, "Shooter Ready!?" each string, and been able to finish up a minute or two earlier overall. But, to me, the value of that minute or two for the whole day vs. rattling their routine and making them have a bad time (or worse) just doesn't seem worth it.


Despite getting sunburned (and coming home to a lecture about sunscreen ), missing out on lunch with the cool guys (thanks Chinavirus for keeping the restaurants closed), and my legs still being sore today from running...I thought it was a pretty good way to spend a Saturday (and it didn't even cost me a lot in ammo $$...cuz I was shooting rimfire )

Good post, extra credit for prolific use of emojis.

Let me be clear, I would not and will not criticize the newb who only has a rimfire and wants to get in the game. Welcome and let's get some.

However, those that unpack a pimped out highly customized 10-22 and watch them fiddle fart with it like I do a stock model I've got no patience for. Sorry, not sorry.

I like shooting with my friends but I also like making new friends by shooting with people I don't know. And I like best to shoot with people who are better than I am because I can learn from them and make myself better.

We have a great thing going here, hands down the best SC match around. I shot at the inaugural SC up at the Littlestown Fish and Game club in PA a month ago and was telling some of my squadmates about our matches and showed them Occam's killer video from the November match. Three of them shot with us last Saturday and absolutely loved it. They were blown away by the facility and the stages of madness.

 

[Art3]

Good post, extra credit for prolific use of emojis.

Let me be clear, I would not and will not criticize the newb who only has a rimfire and wants to get in the game. Welcome and let's get some.

However, those that unpack a pimped out highly customized 10-22 and watch them fiddle fart with it like I do a stock model I've got no patience for. Sorry, not sorry.

I like shooting with my friends but I also like making new friends by shooting with people I don't know. And I like best to shoot with people who are better than I am because I can learn from them and make myself better.

We have a great thing going here, hands down the best SC match around. I shot at the inaugural SC up at the Littlestown Fish and Game club in PA a month ago and was telling some of my squadmates about our matches and showed them Occam's killer video from the November match. Three of them shot with us last Saturday and absolutely loved it. They were blown away by the facility and the stages of madness.

Oh...I didn't know it was that kind of 10-22...now, that makes it kinda funny

 

[MEGARMS]

Reminder - Last Thursday's "Rifle Only" Action Shooting Practice was rescheduled until this Thursday. Weather looks good, so meet us at the Action Shooting Sheds a little before 5 pm for set up. We will be loading the trailer up and setting up targets on the 200.

Members and guests are welcome to join. We ask for a $5 steel target donation to help us replenish those consumables.

Hope to see you then.