A new comer's first impression of hrpb meeting and some questions

[ar154u]

Last night was my first engagement relating to 2A in MD.

Overall I was impressed by the work MSI has been doing. I'm no dumby, I know what chipping away at something looks like. I know people want to go whole hog right now and it is easy to get frustrated with things like governments only giving permits to other government employees but that is certainly no reason to throw in the towel.

That board was as friendly to 2A as current law allows. I dare say I heard some comments from the panel that I would describe as leading a horse to water (water that removes restrictions). Again, I was impressed on the progress of what I saw last night.

Working within the current structure of G&S I am wondering if anyone has attempted to use ISIS threats as G&S for the regular, non government employee. I do not advise kicking hornet nests but is it correct that a threat on your life is G&S and if so does a facebook comment from ISIS consititue a legitimate threat?

I am also wondering how the board would react to the following question.

If someone in the OPM breach has G&S 24/7 and being the case that you can't throw a rock in MD with out it landing on some manner of Government Agent or contractor would the average citizen have G&S on the basis that they may very well be caught in the crossfire between ISIS hitman and their potiential target?

On to policy making - The biggest problem I saw was a room full of middle aged white guys. Unless you have been living under a rock this is not a demographic that is looked at kindly by the media. You have to deal with the fact that we live in an ultra blue state that isn't swinging red any time soon. Hogan can only do so much. If you want 2A back ASAP you are going to have to play a bit dirty and out progressive the progressives. (note - not talking about democrats or liberals - voters, progressives are the ones lording over us from chairs up high)

They do not fear being voted out here but one thing all progressives fear is being labeled a racist.

You need a minority out reach program. You need a youtube video of a black single mom saying may issue is Racist. You need her to say "these white politicans don't think black people should be allowed to defend themselves"

If you think that is dirty, well too bad. I want to win. The truth is G&S is, in all reality, racist. Considering the current climate regarding law enforcement and the Freddy Gray situation this would not be a tough nut to crack. The ranges I frequent have plenty of black customers. This leads me to believe there is some element of racism playing a role here.

All I can say is knock that mess off. You don't have to like everyone but a reasonable person pushes in the direction they need to go and kicking out help based on skin color or politican alignment is foolish. Focus on the goal in the distance not the skin color or donkey/elephant next to you.

You aren't getting right to carry without the help of blacks and democrats. You are in my way of defending myself and my family. Do you want to win or do you want to be a big old racist loser? I'm in it for the win![/QUOTE
I have a plan that is right up your alley. If you are in it to win it, then join me and a few others in our endeavor. Myself and a few others are going to apply for a permit using the 14th Amendment as our G&S reason. We have a MSP Certified Handgun Instructor who has committed to providing the CCW training we need for free in Salisbury. The dates for training are Friday March 4Th and Friday March 11th. It is my opinion that by applying and using only these words 14th Amendment Right to equal protection on the application for G&S is a way to go. Not the only way, but a way. I feel that denying an application using this process will be a direct violation of our 14thA right. In closing, help me help you as we restore the rights to all in this state.

 

[ar154u]

Smokey, click on these links explaining my thought process for 14ThA

http://mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=187759
http://mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=187960

 

[Schipperke]

Having skimmed quickly after a post caught my eye, I find it laughable the OP is being construed by some as painting anyone racist. The OP has a very good point. Someone want to deny that if that room was filled with 30 black people every time it wouldn't get press coverage, if they were given notice? The point that 30 middle age white guys have no political clout in anyway by comparison to a room full of vocal minorities has merit. Close to 1/3 this state is black. I have no idea the percent in the Baltimore region.

When delegates see a group of people they know will never vote for them, there is zero incentive to even consider any point. Get a room full of their voting base, different story. The lack of minorities in pro 2A groups is a taboo subject when brought up sometimes. Many polls confirm that minority groups have a different view of gun laws and carry. When a group is so beholden to the left and constantly fed how gun laws work, not hard to understand.

 

[Blaster229]

Cannot force a race of people who may be in a gun group to go out and "recruit" if they don't want to. Sorry, minorities may not feel as strong about it as "middle age white guys". If a middle aged white guy tries to "coerce" a minority group to rally for HIS cause, well then they become token and used.

 

[Schipperke]

Cannot force a race of people who may be in a gun group to go out and "recruit" if they don't want to. Sorry, minorities may not feel as strong about it as "middle age white guys". If a middle aged white guy tries to "coerce" a minority group to rally for HIS cause, well then they become token and used.

Agreed.

There is a lot more to why the 2A group is middle age and up, white and so adamant, some deeper underlying issues.

 

[Rack&Roll]

How about hundreds of years of culture?

It's why hand-wringing about "Why Joe Six Pack won't watch soccer on TV" is a waste of time, too.

Not gonna happen with nagging.

 

[Schipperke]

How about hundreds of years of culture?

It's why hand-wringing about "Why Joe Six Pack won't watch soccer on TV" is a waste of time, too.

Not gonna happen with nagging.

... coming to an end..

 

[Overboost44]

Having skimmed quickly after a post caught my eye, I find it laughable the OP is being construed by some as painting anyone racist. The OP has a very good point. Someone want to deny that if that room was filled with 30 black people every time it wouldn't get press coverage, if they were given notice? The point that 30 middle age white guys have no political clout in anyway by comparison to a room full of vocal minorities has merit. Close to 1/3 this state is black. I have no idea the percent in the Baltimore region.

When delegates see a group of people they know will never vote for them, there is zero incentive to even consider any point. Get a room full of their voting base, different story. The lack of minorities in pro 2A groups is a taboo subject when brought up sometimes. Many polls confirm that minority groups have a different view of gun laws and carry. When a group is so beholden to the left and constantly fed how gun laws work, not hard to understand.

Well said, Schkip . The OP may have not said it the way everyone wanted to read it, but some of us get the intention of the point that he was trying to get across.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Yeah Brother OB44… But what if I walked into a pool hall with really good stick skills and I went up to the first table of guys...and the first thing I said was "you're doing it wrong", how far do you think I get?

I'd be playing alone at the cruddy table next to the head.

 

[Schipperke]

Yeah Brother OB44… But what if I walked into a pool hall with really good stick skills and I went up to the first table of guys...and the first thing I said was "you're doing it wrong", how far do you think I get?

I'd be playing alone at the cruddy table next to the head.

Money talks in a pool room. You walk in like that, you'll get plenty of action.

 

[teratos]

Having skimmed quickly after a post caught my eye, I find it laughable the OP is being construed by some as painting anyone racist. The OP has a very good point. Someone want to deny that if that room was filled with 30 black people every time it wouldn't get press coverage, if they were given notice? The point that 30 middle age white guys have no political clout in anyway by comparison to a room full of vocal minorities has merit. Close to 1/3 this state is black. I have no idea the percent in the Baltimore region.

When delegates see a group of people they know will never vote for them, there is zero incentive to even consider any point. Get a room full of their voting base, different story. The lack of minorities in pro 2A groups is a taboo subject when brought up sometimes. Many polls confirm that minority groups have a different view of gun laws and carry. When a group is so beholden to the left and constantly fed how gun laws work, not hard to understand.

We sometimes eat our young here.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Money talks in a pool room. You walk in like that, you'll get plenty of action.

Going in to make bank and going in to recruit for my league team is different, yes.

We sometimes eat our young here.

I dunno Doc... Do you really think someone who is rude to people here on his very first approach would be magically, transformatively entrancing and swoony with our opponents? Doesn't track for me.

 

[teratos]

Going in to make bank and going in to recruit for my league team is different, yes.



I dunno Doc... Do you really think someone who is rude to people here on his very first approach would be magically, transformatively entrancing and swoony with our opponents? Doesn't track for me.

I understand your point. Things in text aren't always what they appear to be, though. Some people have a writing style that doesn't come across well. We have a noob telling us things we already know in a less than eloquent manner. We need all the warm bodies we can get in this fight. Perhaps some gentle re-education and we may have another ally. He did take the time to go to the meeting, so may be up for doing more things in the future. Of course, he may be a complete asshat.

 

[ComeGet]

The guy's first post was not just poorly written and worded.

While he called G&S racist, which most here would agree on, he did also call us racist. If you don't see that, then we just disagree.

Look at his second post. He admits to poking the bear on purpose for a response, to see how a bunch of white guys would respond to being called racist, then he gloated about the responses.

Not only is that annoying, but I believe it's also against forum rules.

That said, I get the point about perception. I'm not blind, nor are most people here.

The tactical pragmatism of a more inclusive and demographically mixed group pushing for our cause would be much stronger than the monochrome face we present now. Most people who have given this much thought will know that already.

And, I think that any organization that is interested in promoting 2A rights in Maryland should reach out to everyone and get the message spread as broadly as possible.

In the end, though, how each person acts, no matter their demographic group, is up to them as individuals.

The OFWGs are not preventing anyone from any demographic group from doing anything.

 

[Stoveman]

I could get past the first post if he came back in and explained himself.

But the second post was just bizarre, explaining that in the first post he was performing a psychological parlor trick.....

 

[Blacksmith101]

There are not as many people of color gun owners because the Jim Crow Racist anti gun laws are working just like the Democratic elected officials intended.

 

[Overboost44]

Yeah Brother OB44… But what if I walked into a pool hall with really good stick skills and I went up to the first table of guys...and the first thing I said was "you're doing it wrong", how far do you think I get?

I think I would take all your money

I'd be playing alone at the cruddy table next to the head.

It requires tact, my friend. There is a right way and a wrong way. I'm with you in spirit though.

 

[fabsroman]

I would advise you do to a couple of things.
First, not come here on a first post alluding to racism in this group.
Second, Some people here, and I would not include myself in this category, have been working on this a very long time, and are aware of our image. You are coming in to the tail end of a long fight and I for one would not have believed we could get this far.

Tail end of a long fight. Had no idea we were anywhere close to the tail end of this fight. Thought there was a lot more work to be done.

 

[fabsroman]

Last night was my first engagement relating to 2A in MD.

Overall I was impressed by the work MSI has been doing. I'm no dumby, I know what chipping away at something looks like. I know people want to go whole hog right now and it is easy to get frustrated with things like governments only giving permits to other government employees but that is certainly no reason to throw in the towel.

That board was as friendly to 2A as current law allows. I dare say I heard some comments from the panel that I would describe as leading a horse to water (water that removes restrictions). Again, I was impressed on the progress of what I saw last night.

Working within the current structure of G&S I am wondering if anyone has attempted to use ISIS threats as G&S for the regular, non government employee. I do not advise kicking hornet nests but is it correct that a threat on your life is G&S and if so does a facebook comment from ISIS consititue a legitimate threat?

I am also wondering how the board would react to the following question.

If someone in the OPM breach has G&S 24/7 and being the case that you can't throw a rock in MD with out it landing on some manner of Government Agent or contractor would the average citizen have G&S on the basis that they may very well be caught in the crossfire between ISIS hitman and their potiential target?

On to policy making - The biggest problem I saw was a room full of middle aged white guys. Unless you have been living under a rock this is not a demographic that is looked at kindly by the media. You have to deal with the fact that we live in an ultra blue state that isn't swinging red any time soon. Hogan can only do so much. If you want 2A back ASAP you are going to have to play a bit dirty and out progressive the progressives. (note - not talking about democrats or liberals - voters, progressives are the ones lording over us from chairs up high)

They do not fear being voted out here but one thing all progressives fear is being labeled a racist.

You need a minority out reach program. You need a youtube video of a black single mom saying may issue is Racist. You need her to say "these white politicans don't think black people should be allowed to defend themselves"

If you think that is dirty, well too bad. I want to win. The truth is G&S is, in all reality, racist. Considering the current climate regarding law enforcement and the Freddy Gray situation this would not be a tough nut to crack. The ranges I frequent have plenty of black customers. This leads me to believe there is some element of racism playing a role here.

All I can say is knock that mess off. You don't have to like everyone but a reasonable person pushes in the direction they need to go and kicking out help based on skin color or politican alignment is foolish. Focus on the goal in the distance not the skin color or donkey/elephant next to you.

You aren't getting right to carry without the help of blacks and democrats. You are in my way of defending myself and my family. Do you want to win or do you want to be a big old racist loser? I'm in it for the win!

G&S isn't racist if it is applied equally to everybody based upon race, or applied with no consideration of race whatsoever. I have not heard that it isn't, but data would help with this argument.

Now, what you can say is that the HQL is burdensome to the poor, no matter what race. So, the HQL is just another form of class warfare where the poor cannot have a gun to protect themselves, but the rich can. This is because of the ridiculous fees that go into the HQL. The fees related to a CCW permit application are even more ludicrous. You actually have to pay money to be printed and mug shot for this stuff, whereas a criminal gets it done for free, along with free room and board and armed security protection. I'd type "lol" if I was not sick to my stomach thinking about this.

 

[Kilroy]

You need a minority out reach program. You need a youtube video of a black single mom saying may issue is Racist. You need her to say "these white politicans don't think black people should be allowed to defend themselves"

Right on. This would probably play well in MD.