44 mag or 45-70 Lever gun ?

[joppaj]

Judging from the first post, I'm assuming the OP is in shotgun/straight-wall cartridge territory for deer in state.

Wholly possible.

More deer have been taken with 30-30s than any other caliber.

This was a very popular statement back in the day. I always argued, more deer were shot and lost after being shot with a 30-30. I don't think there's ever been a stat on that, but if there was, I'd betcha it is true to this day.

Flame on everyone!

My only reason for it is that during the worst of the various ammo crunches, I could almost always find 30-30. .44 is never easy to find and it was part of the reason I got out of that caliber. Now, if OP is going to reload, whole different story.

 

[Brickman301]

45/70 all the way! I love my Marlin, but the Henry rifles are nice too. The new ones have the loading gate, and the tube feed. That’s a nice touch.
45/70 is a pure hammer of a round for deer. I’ve taken numerous deer with mine, and hunted exclusively with it last year. Took 4 deer last season with mine.
44 mag is also good for deer, but I have more faith in the 45/70.

 

[outrider58]

My only reason for it is that during the worst of the various ammo crunches, I could almost always find 30-30. .44 is never easy to find and it was part of the reason I got out of that caliber. Now, if OP is going to reload, whole different story.

Now you know why...

 

[MDHunter]

Get whichever is easier to get ammo for in your area.

On the bang-flop issue - that's more a factor of where you hit them. You can make a perfect double lung shot with a rifle, and the deer might still run 100 - 150 yards before dying. If you hit the CNS (spine or neck), much more likely to get a bang-flop.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Ok, then I go back to 30-30.

all my MD deer hunting is in SWC counties

 

[hobiecat590]

More deer have been taken with 30-30s than any other caliber.

This was a very popular statement back in the day. I always argued, more deer were shot and lost after being shot with a 30-30. I don't think there's ever been a stat on that, but if there was, I'd betcha it is true to this day.

Flame on everyone!

When you are right you are right. They are dead deer walking, just don't know it yet. The 30-30 was orginally a black powder cartridge that is neutered using smokless to keep all those old rifles from blowing apart. Same for the 45-70 to a lesser extent. Use Lever Evolution to get the most out of these or hand load using hotter charges for use in modern firearms. Mine was retired for a 6.5 Swede, then a 25-06 for WTs in rifle country and a 44 rem mag or 45-70 in straight wall country. Cheers.

 

[Pale Ryder]

I had the same decision a couple years ago between an 1894 .44 or an 1895 45/70.

I went with the .44 based on the following.
.44 ammo is cheaper
I already have a Ruger SBH in .44 and reloading supplies for it.
The rifle was about $300 cheaper.
Recoil will be less.

Some of that may or may not apply to you. Sometimes I think I should have went with the 45/70, but I’m not going to hunt bear or anything larger than a Maryland deer, so I’m content for the most part.

 

[smdub]

If you already have (or want) a 44mag revolver, then the 44mag.

Else 45/70. Coyboy loads (BP equivalent) are pussycats. You can also get absolute hammer modern loads. Can handload anywhere in between. Its simply a more flexible cartridge.

 

[Brickman301]

When you are right you are right. They are dead deer walking, just don't know it yet. The 30-30 was orginally a black powder cartridge that is neutered using smokless to keep all those old rifles from blowing apart. Same for the 45-70 to a lesser extent. Use Lever Evolution to get the most out of these or hand load using hotter charges for use in modern firearms. Mine was retired for a 6.5 Swede, then a 25-06 for WTs in rifle country and a 44 rem mag or 45-70 in straight wall country. Cheers.

The 30-30 was not originally a black powder cartridge. it was and has always been a smokeless powder cartridge

 

[Brickman301]

Yes, hand loading for 45-70 in modern designed firearms takes the cartridge to a whole other level. My hand loads are nowhere near max, but the results are devastating on deer. I’m pushing 342 grain powder coated pure lead hollow points just shy of 2000FPS.
No leading what so ever. I thought the bullets being pure lead would expand, which they certainly do, but I haven’t recovered one yet. I’ve always gotten complete pass throughs on deer. Even driving the bullets through both shoulders, it just keeps going. It’s a penetrator for sure.

 

[Doco Overboard]

When you are right you are right. They are dead deer walking, just don't know it yet. The 30-30 was orginally a black powder cartridge that is neutered using smokless to keep all those old rifles from blowing apart. Same for the 45-70 to a lesser extent. Use Lever Evolution to get the most out of these or hand load using hotter charges for use in modern firearms. Mine was retired for a 6.5 Swede, then a 25-06 for WTs in rifle country and a 44 rem mag or 45-70 in straight wall country. Cheers.

30/30 was designed to be a smokeless powder cartridge.
May have been the first marketed as such by Winchester next to the 25-35.
Never heard of a black powder 30 WCF unless someone is loading some boutique cowboy stuff or something for kicks.

 

[hobiecat590]

The 30-30 was not originally a black powder cartridge. it was and has always been a smokeless powder cartridge

Sorry for the brain fart. I had 45-70 on my mind.

 

[Bountied]

What's the other 1%? Crabs or yellow jackets?





Assuming it's one or the other given the recent number of threads on the two.

Spiders!

 

[Biggfoot44]

When you are right you are right. They are dead deer walking, just don't know it yet. The 30-30 was orginally a black powder cartridge that is neutered using smokless to keep all those old rifles from blowing apart. Same for the 45-70 to a lesser extent. Use Lever Evolution to get the most out of these or hand load using hotter charges for use in modern firearms. Mine was retired for a 6.5 Swede, then a 25-06 for WTs in rifle country and a 44 rem mag or 45-70 in straight wall country. Cheers.

No .

.30-30 began as smokeless , actually it was the very first Sporting Cartridge designed from ground up as Smokeless .
Nuetered ? Nah . 1890's era specs were iirc 165gr @ 1950 fps or thereabouts , with early powders being limiting factor . By 1920's , the standard 150 & 170 were same velocities as today . ( Insert .32 Win Spl trivia here )

In 1890s , the .30WCF was considered high velocity , flat trajectory , long range ctg . By the 1920s and 30s as .30-06 and .300 Savage usage began trickling down into the masses , the perspective changed .

 

[Trigger Time]

I've got a nice ported Marlin 45-70 I've been thinking about letting go. My hunting days are over.



keep your eye's on the classifieds in next few days.

 

[Brickman301]

Sorry for the brain fart. I had 45-70 on my mind.

All good!
I’ve just heard that rumor being spread so many times over the years. It is confusing as they named it the same way they named black powder cartridges back then. So it was .30 caliber with 30 grains of smokeless powder.

 

[trickg]

I had the same decision a couple years ago between an 1894 .44 or an 1895 45/70.

I went with the .44 based on the following.
.44 ammo is cheaper
I already have a Ruger SBH in .44 and reloading supplies for it.
The rifle was about $300 cheaper.
Recoil will be less.

Some of that may or may not apply to you. Sometimes I think I should have went with the 45/70, but I’m not going to hunt bear or anything larger than a Maryland deer, so I’m content for the most part.

You said pretty much the same thing I was going to say. On the flip side, you can lob a pretty big slug out of the 45-70, but if Elk are not a factor, the 44 Mag can be loaded to be pretty danged potent for anything else. Out of a rifle, the 44 mag can be loaded for full house loads with W296/H110 or 2400 that can push to 1700-1800 fps with a 240 gr jacketed, according to my Hornady manual.

44 Mag would be my choice.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Last part first : OP could equally enjoy either . And yes, I'm giving at least equal props to .44 .

 

[44man]

For whitetail and even hogs a .44man is plenty good. Shot placement and distance matters a bit more with the .44 mag I believe. The 45/70 can be used on bigger game so it would be a bit more useful there though. But for just md deer I would say.44 mag.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Yes, hand loading for 45-70 in modern designed firearms takes the cartridge to a whole other level. My hand loads are nowhere near max, but the results are devastating on deer. I’m pushing 342 grain powder coated pure lead hollow points just shy of 2000FPS.
No leading what so ever. I thought the bullets being pure lead would expand, which they certainly do, but I haven’t recovered one yet. I’ve always gotten complete pass throughs on deer. Even driving the bullets through both shoulders, it just keeps going. It’s a penetrator for sure.

Good info, Thanks.
Do you have bullet drop/ballistics for this load? interested in 0-150 yard drop.