.357 Sig Reloading Blues

[brianns]

The expander ball helps force the brass into place. I’m not sure the projectile will operate the same way on the brass. You know the projectile is malleable.

 

[Squaregrouper]

I am against resizing a live round because materials that ‘give’ might impact your volume and maybe elongate the case.

I’d take off the projectile, save the powder, and resize even with primer on it. But I’m Leary of a full loaded cartridge getting resized.

I understand where you're coming from on this and a picture doesn't show how tiny the discrepancy is. The mis-torqued dies prevented the shoulder from being bumped in by about 3-5 degrees. It was close enough that the case mouth was sized correctly, but the shoulder missed the die by an ass hair.
In post #1 I mentioned how unforgiving the .357 Sig is to reload. The picture below's shoulder is correct. My failed shoulders are barely out of spec, preventing them from passing the Lyman case gauge test.
.

 

[smdub]

The expander ball helps force the brass into place. I’m not sure the projectile will operate the same way on the brass. You know the projectile is malleable.

Sizing dies are undersized so they take into account the brass springback. The expander ball stretches the neck back out to size. With a bullet in there, it likely won't even enter the sizing die correctly.

 

[brianns]

I understand where you're coming from on this and a picture doesn't show how tiny the discrepancy is. The mis-torqued dies prevented the shoulder from being bumped in by about 3-5 degrees. It was close enough that the case mouth was sized correctly, but the shoulder missed the die by an ass hair.
In post #1 I mentioned how unforgiving the .357 Sig is to reload. The picture below's shoulder is correct. My failed shoulders are barely out of spec, preventing them from passing the Lyman case gauge test.
.

I was just thinking the expander ball provides some rigid support to the case as the die shoulder forces the case shoulder to move. Will the brass move enough without a rigid support where normally there is one?

 

[Squaregrouper]

Will one drop into the sizing die up to the shoulder? I have a hunch the neck won't go back in and then it would be a moot point.

You probably aren't using a compacted load. I would think its safe enough to push the shoulder back a couple thousandths w/ powder in there. That is if the neck physically fits into the die...

It is not a compressed load. 124gr RMR Nuke over 8.6gr Longshot @1.14". A hot load, but under SAAMI max (Confirmed by Hodgdon and GRT specs)
This picture may be hard to see, but the line is between case length minimum and maximum. The brass is the correct size but the shoulder angle is slightly off. My fingernail can easily feel it is too long.
(For those who don't reload .357 Sig, yes the tolerances are that tight.)

 

[brianns]

Sizing dies are undersized so they take into account the brass springback. The expander ball stretches the neck back out to size. With a bullet in there, it likely won't even enter the sizing die correctly.

That would be another reason to have concern for running a loaded cartridge up into it.

My vote is for removing the projectile with a collet puller nice and calm. (no kinetic hammer)

Also if the case doesn’t go up all the way into the die the base can remain swelled. I think that’s also why the cartridge might not drop all the way in. Soooo now I’m wondering if you use the 40sw die with the pin and ball removed like a small base die. Then see if that was the hang up. I don’t know but maybe that might do it. Just have to remeasure everything to see if it worked.

 

[Squaregrouper]

My vote is for removing the projectile with a collet puller nice and calm. (no kinetic hammer)

Also if the case doesn’t go up all the way into the die the base can remain swelled. I think that’s also why the cartridge might not drop all the way in. Soooo now I’m wondering if you use the 40sw die with the pin and ball removed like a small base die. Then see if that was the hang up. I don’t know but maybe that might do it. Just have to remeasure everything to see if it worked.

The failed cases are the correct length and freely pop in and out of 10mm/.40 die. I am 99% sure the shoulder angle is the issue. I have never tried to resize a live round which is why I am asking the brain trust.

 

[atblis]

Do they chamber in your pistol though? Try it with the slide and barrel off the frame.

I've got a batch of Longshot that gives me ridiculous velocities and likely over pressure using Hogdon published loads.

I've had the expander ball pull the neck forward slightly if the inside of the neck is not lubed. I only use mandrel style expanders these days.

Also, sizing dies undersize the neck, and then the expander ball is pulled through the neck on the way out. The expander ball is not inside the neck at the same time the case neck is being sized. Neck sizing a case with a seated bullet is a bad idea because the bullet will be swaged down. If you had something like a Redding body die, theoretically you could bump the shoulder.

 

[Squaregrouper]

My vote is for removing the projectile with a collet puller nice and calm. (no kinetic hammer)

Also if the case doesn’t go up all the way into the die the base can remain swelled. I think that’s also why the cartridge might not drop all the way in. Soooo now I’m wondering if you use the 40sw die with the pin and ball removed like a small base die. Then see if that was the hang up. I don’t know but maybe that might do it. Just have to remeasure everything to see if it worked.

This might explain a little.
I can't get a good enough picture to show the shoulder angle discrepancy, so I am not posting that.
The .40 portion has no problems fitting into the Lyman gauge. Neck side down is when I have issues. (Cartridge in the gauge upside down)
.

 

[smdub]

I thnk the neck expander ball on a rifle case is lower than the neck size ring. It sizes the OD on the way down (w/ the ball inside the case already), and it sizes the neck ID w/ the ball on the way up.

Ohh SG, You could press them into your lyman case gauge w/ an Arbor press (or a simple vise.)

Atblis has a good idea too - do they chamber when you drop the slide on them? If its close enough, the slide will drive them home to size. Warning, if you try this and don't want to fire it, they might not come out easily. So don't test this part at home

 

[Squaregrouper]

Do they chamber in your pistol though? Try it with the slide and barrel off the frame.

I've got a batch of Longshot that gives me ridiculous velocities and likely over pressure using Hogdon published loads.

I've had the expander ball pull the neck forward slightly if the inside of the neck is not lubed. I only use mandrel style expanders these days.

Roughly 3/4 of them fail the plunk test. I am not comfortable "sending one home" in the pistol while in my house.
ETA + Red quote- This load goes ~1450fps in a 5.5" ported Bar Sto barrel.

 

[brianns]

The failed cases are the correct length and freely pop in and out of 10mm/.40 die. I am 99% sure the shoulder angle is the issue. I have never tried to resize a live round which is why I am asking the brain trust.

If it’s the shoulder alone, then from the picture showing the base sticking out it seems far off to where you’d be relying on the projectile to help keep the neck in place while all the forces come into play to move the shoulder. I just think something will budge where it shouldn’t budge if the brass does actually move.

 

[atblis]

Pull the slide and barrel off the frame. What kind of pistol are we talking about?

 

[brianns]

Roughly 3/4 of them fail the plunk test. I am not comfortable "sending one home" in the pistol while in my house.

I agree with not ‘sending home’. I had some .45acp round I reloaded get stuck in the chamber at a range and it was hard to pull the slide back, etc. from my first batch. Another story for another time maybe.

 

[atblis]

This might explain a little.
I can't get a good enough picture to show the shoulder angle discrepancy, so I am not posting that.
.

Umm, something looks really wrong. Can you give use a pic of the round by itself?

 

[Squaregrouper]

Pull the slide and barrel off the frame. What kind of pistol are we talking about?

Glock 31 with a 5.5" Bar Sto ported barrel. It would easily chamber in the factory Glock barrel, but I sold it that for more than a new KKM barrel (G31 factory barrels aren't sold without the pistol and are unobtanium)

 

[brianns]

SG do you need new .40sw cases to make new .357sig brass until you figure out these 122? I would donate some to you as I have a lot from another member here who gave them to me. I can spare.

If I understood you do that conversion.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Umm, something looks really wrong. Can you give use a pic of the round by itself?

Good and bad. You probably can't see it, but the shoulder angles are different. They are the same length, just slightly offset in the pic.

 

[Squaregrouper]

SG do you need new .40sw cases to make new .357sig brass until you figure out these 122? I would donate some to you as I have a lot from another member here who gave them to me. I can spare.

If I understood you do that conversion.

Incorrect. I start with factory .357 Sig brass. I decap and resize with a .40 carbide die. I then size again with a .357 Sig die. This makes the operation much smoother on a progressive because I am only sizing the neck and shoulder on the press.

 

[brianns]

Incorrect. I start with factory .357 Sig brass. I decap and resize with a .40 carbide die. I then size again with a .357 Sig die. This makes the operation much smoother on a progressive because I am only sizing the neck and shoulder on the press.

Ok. I think I recall you did write that a ways back. Gotcha.