357 Magnum versus 38 Special

[babalou]

The .357 Magnum is the most outstanding versatile caliber made, in my view. And it's too bad Ruger stopped making its amazing Security-Six line of revolvers!

125gr JHP: Against humans, there is no greater manstopper than the 357 125gr JHP. It's even been used to drop mid-size deer, if you're a hunter. Gun writer and former cop Mas Ayoob has said the 125gr JHP is the gold standard for use against humans, even if they're wasted on drugs and otherwise difficult to stop.

COP KILLER BULLETS: In the late 70s/early 80s, cities all over the United States were trying to ban Teflon-coated bullets that the media insisted could kill cops. Of course it the Teflon had nothing to do with it. It was the steel core that caused it to defeat all the bullet-resistant vests in use at the time! Thus, fueled by the media, all Teflon-coated bullets were targeted for banning.

What the media didn't know, but Mas Ayoob (and the NRA, for whom I worked at the time) did, was that the 125gr/JHP also could poke holes in the bullet-resistant vests cops wore all day long! Had that been known at the time, the entire shooting world would be far different today! It was a dark time then. Even today, a 125gr/JHP is extremely uncomfortable to be shot with, even with a vest. True, it won't penetrate modern vests, but it it's worse than being shot with other handgun loads.

ADDENDUM: The media never was successful in teaching violent criminals to attain the Cop Killer Bullets. But the issue did cause criminals all over the United States to increase tactics such as laying in wait and ambush attacks. Anyone with reloading equipment can produce steel bullets. But that was too much trouble for violent criminals, so they would hide in stair wells and wait for cops to show up. Then they would go for head shots when the cops showed up. So the media actually taught violent criminals to kill cops!

158gr/JHP: Finally, the 158gr JHP .357 is a great round to use for hunting. Like the 125 JHP, it's a violent round. But it's very good for penetration. It's not to be used for two-legged varmints if it can be avoided, but it's great for most other applications. Years ago, in California, the California HWP had a running gun battle with a violent criminal. They had 357 158gr/JHPs, the bad guy had a .45ACP. He was able to take out three HWPs before one of the California cops got him.

I love the 357 Magnum. The ABSOLUTE BEST ones made today are the S&W 686 in 4-/6-inch models. Next in line are the Ruger GP-100s. I could go on, but everyone has their own views.

i love gp-100s.

 

[minux]

Has any one bought the Colt King Cobra and Python? I actually prefer the handling of the King Cobra and it is the cheaper model. 4.25" barrel is what I am looking at.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

I have both…like them both for different reasons. The Python is bigger…stronger…and it’s a Python. The King Cobra is a smaller frame and is probably more practical from a concealed carry aspect…the Python is more of an open carry gun for the field.

They‘re both very accurate…the Python somewhat more due to the extra weight reducing felt recoil. They have the same sights though a lot of Colt guys have been replacing the factory sights with those from Wilson Combat.

My only complaints about the 4.25” King Cobra…I wish it came with a wider target hammer and a slightly wider and more rounded trigger face…but those are really minor.

 

[minux]

I have both…like them both for different reasons. The Python is bigger…stronger…and it’s a Python. The King Cobra is a smaller frame and is probably more practical from a concealed carry aspect…the Python is more of an open carry gun for the field.

They‘re both very accurate…the Python somewhat more due to the extra weight reducing felt recoil. They have the same sights though a lot of Colt guys have been replacing the factory sights with those from Wilson Combat.

My only complaints about the 4.25” King Cobra…I wish it came with a wider target hammer and a slightly wider and more rounded trigger face…but those are really minor.

Thank you for the great insight! If only funds were unlimited, I would get both!

 

[slsc98]

Cuz, its in the thread title:

Testing The .38 Special Cartridge​

Age Verification - NRA

Testing The .357 Mag. Cartridge:​

Age Verification - NRA

 

[coinboy]

Good morning, all.

Do you all think everyone should own a revolver or is a semi automatic best? Trying to think about family members who may have trouble loading a semi automatic magazine.

What is everyone's thoughts on using a 357 Magnum or 38 Special for Defense and Target Practice? Which one would be considered better and why? Is there a huge difference in ammunition costs between the 357 Magnum and 38 Special?

I know folks who were FED LEOs in the 70s all swear by the 357s, but is that due to what they knew or something else?

Thank you.

I like .357/.38. Always did.

I carried a .38 Taurus Revolver at the old Armored Car Company I used to work at. Phased out red and black trucks are now grey.

It's a bit heavy as a steel gun but will reliably go bang. No need to stuff magazines, rack the slide, and I believe they are safer than a striker fire. (Some may hate that I say that and they have a right to their opinion. I believe it is safer especially for novice and inexperienced shooters.)

The versatility is nice and currently rounds for each aren't that much different but are generally higher than 9mm. Some .357/.38 revolvers have a 9mm conversion cylinder.

Problem with a revolver is that rounds in the cylinder are VERY limited (5, 6, or 7) and reloading is much more difficult even with speed loaders compared to a semi auto. Also because the gun is steel, it's much heavier.

I really don't like when people discount (not financially) revolvers and don't give them a shot. They are really great reliable guns and have protected the lives of police and civilians for many, many years.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Cuz, its in the thread title:

Testing The .38 Special Cartridge​

Age Verification - NRA

Testing The .357 Mag. Cartridge:​

Age Verification - NRA

Just for context , in the above linked American Rifleman articles , the terminal performance was tested in 1.87 inch bbl . In .38 Spl , that's relevant , in .357 it's not .

 

[minux]

I like .357/.38. Always did.

I carried a .38 Taurus Revolver at the old Armored Car Company I used to work at. Phased out red and black trucks are now grey.

It's a bit heavy as a steel gun but will reliably go bang. No need to stuff magazines, rack the slide, and I believe they are safer than a striker fire. (Some may hate that I say that and they have a right to their opinion. I believe it is safer especially for novice and inexperienced shooters.)

The versatility is nice and currently rounds for each aren't that much different but are generally higher than 9mm. Some .357/.38 revolvers have a 9mm conversion cylinder.

Problem with a revolver is that rounds in the cylinder are VERY limited (5, 6, or 7) and reloading is much more difficult even with speed loaders compared to a semi auto. Also because the gun is steel, it's much heavier.

I really don't like when people discount (not financially) revolvers and don't give them a shot. They are really great reliable guns and have protected the lives of police and civilians for many, many years.

You bring up a lot of thoughts. I do like the ease of use of a revolver, but like you said, only a handful of rounds.

For Wear & Carry, is 6 enough or has the world changed too far towards semi-autos, where we need to carry semis with multiple cartridges?

 

[coinboy]

You bring up a lot of thoughts. I do like the ease of use of a revolver, but like you said, only a handful of rounds.

For Wear & Carry, is 6 enough or has the world changed too far towards semi-autos, where we need to carry semis with multiple cartridges?

...and that, my friend, is the debate.

I will state that it is pretty well understood that most gun crimes occur with a pistol with approximately 1 to 3 rounds. So on average, a person with a CCW would be battling that. Now if it were a school shooter with an AR, then the CCW holder would be at a severe disadvantage with a pistol or a revolver. Assuming it was legal to have a carry gun in a school which is not the case in MD.

 

[joppaj]

You bring up a lot of thoughts. I do like the ease of use of a revolver, but like you said, only a handful of rounds.

For Wear & Carry, is 6 enough or has the world changed too far towards semi-autos, where we need to carry semis with multiple cartridges?

I have two Ruger .357s. They're amongst my favorite guns to shoot. They look great and the .357 is my favorite handgun round.

All that said, they're heavy, have a pronounced bulge from the cylinder and have small capacity. There are multiple semi autos that are lighter, higher capacity and chambered in calibers that work just as well. Years ago one of our members discussed the virtue of a hammerless revolver carried in a loose jacket pocket. The idea was that the gun could actually be fired from within the pocket and likely not bind up. That made sense. Absent that very odd situation, if you're going to carry a gun, carry the very best one you can.

 

[mmacro]

Just my two cents... The hands-down, best defense in the home is a shotgun. They have surveyed criminals and they universally say the sound of a pump being racked deters them more than knowing a pistol is in the house. A novice shooter should NEVER carry a firearm they are not fully confident, capable and practiced in operating and shooting. So the "what firearm" question kind of becomes irrelevant. They should be shooting a number of different types and calibers of firearms to see what best works for them.
That being said, if you are set on a pistol for self defense in the home, a novice shooter who does not regularly practice is best off with a full-frame .357 mag with a 6 inch barrel and something like a Crimson Trace handgrip. My reasoning is:
1. A misfire's remedial action is pull the trigger again. With a semi you have a whole process to clear and reset the pistol.
2. A novice can train with very light .38 SPL ammo for confidence and work up to defensive loads.
3. Reloading is simpler and does not require a lot of strength. It's not really slower if a person has difficulty racking a slide or seating a magazine.
4. The weight of a full-frame revolver helps tame recoil. Many semi's are very light and the larger calibers are punishing.
5. The 6 in barrel is more accurate than the average semi's barrel length.
6. A laser sight is a universal recommendation and in a panic helps aiming and confidence.
7. In the case of a justified use of force, a jury generally perceives revolvers as less "evil" or "antagonistic." (And there will be a jury, criminal and civil, regardless of justified or not.)

 

[LuckyShot]

A revolver was missing from my growing pistol collection and I just so happen to see a stainless 3 inch gp100 on consignment with little use. Changed to wood grips and its become my top 3 fav pistols to shoot at the range.

Price difference per box between 38 and 357 seem to be $8. I've found cheap 357mag for 22$ and tend to shoot more of that and save 38 for my girlfriend.

I wouldn't rely on a revolver for self defense just because of round count and i can shoot a semi faster.

Would i throw a .38 snubby in my pocket with +P for a dog walk? hell yea but not full time

 

[rbird7282]

Just my two cents... The hands-down, best defense in the home is a shotgun. They have surveyed criminals and they universally say the sound of a pump being racked deters them more than knowing a pistol is in the house. A novice shooter should NEVER carry a firearm they are not fully confident, capable and practiced in operating and shooting. So the "what firearm" question kind of becomes irrelevant. They should be shooting a number of different types and calibers of firearms to see what best works for them.
That being said, if you are set on a pistol for self defense in the home, a novice shooter who does not regularly practice is best off with a full-frame .357 mag with a 6 inch barrel and something like a Crimson Trace handgrip. My reasoning is:
1. A misfire's remedial action is pull the trigger again. With a semi you have a whole process to clear and reset the pistol.
2. A novice can train with very light .38 SPL ammo for confidence and work up to defensive loads.
3. Reloading is simpler and does not require a lot of strength. It's not really slower if a person has difficulty racking a slide or seating a magazine.
4. The weight of a full-frame revolver helps tame recoil. Many semi's are very light and the larger calibers are punishing.
5. The 6 in barrel is more accurate than the average semi's barrel length.
6. A laser sight is a universal recommendation and in a panic helps aiming and confidence.
7. In the case of a justified use of force, a jury generally perceives revolvers as less "evil" or "antagonistic." (And there will be a jury, criminal and civil, regardless of justified or not.)

Here we go again with the sound of a pump action shotgun scaring everyone away lol.

A full frame 6" revolver is a heavy gun, accuracy of the gun is largely irrelevant in a self defense shooting.
You're not shooting bullseye. Most likely you'll be point shooting and not even using sights.
At most I can't see using more than a 4" barrel for a revolver, but you do you.
Reloading a revolver takes longer than a semi-auto although if you're at the point of having to reload, you're probably already in deep sh*t.
A suppressed AR rifle with proper ammo is better than either a shotgun or a pistol.
As to #7, show me a court case where that's been true. Saying that using a revolver instead of a semi-automatic may somehow go better for you is nonsense.

 

[Blacksmith101]

One consideration with inexperienced shooters using a semi auto is if they limp wrist the grip they can cause problems like stove piping and other ejecting and feeding issues. I carry a semi auto but if my wife has to defend the home it will be with a revolver. I practice frequently she practices occasionally. The simplicity and reliability of a revolver is better for the occasional user. I joke about using my "Manly" handgun for home defense it is only a single shot and has a 14" barrel but it shoots .45-70 but I worry that inside the home it would probably knock the plaster off the walls.

 

[Worsley]

Good morning, all.

Do you all think everyone should own a revolver or is a semi automatic best? Trying to think about family members who may have trouble loading a semi automatic magazine.

What is everyone's thoughts on using a 357 Magnum or 38 Special for Defense and Target Practice? Which one would be considered better and why? Is there a huge difference in ammunition costs between the 357 Magnum and 38 Special?

I know folks who were FED LEOs in the 70s all swear by the 357s, but is that due to what they knew or something else?

Thank you.

My advice is have a revolver. I have a Smith & Wesson 547 (9MM) that my wife can shoot without any issues. She pulls it out of the safe, points, shoots.

 

[teratos]

My wife does tight groups with my Desert Eagle in .44 mag.

 

[AlBeight]

My wife does tight groups with my Desert Eagle in .44 mag.

Nice! Give Doc’s wife a harrumph!

 

[Blacksmith101]

Harrumph!

 

[Mingo]

Wow people here are really slacking on the advice. The correct answer is yes and yes. Both a revolver in .357 and a pistol, preferably 9mm or larger.

100 percent agree

 

[Blaster229]

My wife does tight groups with my Desert Eagle in .44 mag.

And you just do groups.