357 Magnum versus 38 Special

[chilipeppermaniac]

Sorry for digressing off the Topic of the OP, but as staying on topic of forming closer ties, I can't not say these things.

Maybe we who are also at odds to various degrees in the forum can learn from what unexpectedly came from my brain today.

This is it from above,

"

 

[Shanny]

I love my 38 special, a revolver never jams, does not discharge casings, and takes a skilled shooter that can use old school sights

 

[Bountied]

I've got some of each they all serve a purpose. You can shoot someone through your jacket with a revolver if the hammer is shrouded, ultimate conceal. They didn't even see what shot them. If I'm going to a gunfight I'm taking a semi auto in .45 with extra mags.

 

[Crosseye Dominant]

My smooth as butter S&W 27-2 is probably around 13# for the DA trigger pull. Maybe 3# for the SA pull. My Dan Wesson 44 is around 12# for the DA pull and about 2.5# for the SA pull. My Colt OP is something in the 14# range for DA pull (my pull gauge stops at 13 and it is just slightly more than that) and the SA pull is 4#. My Glocks are all right at 5# for trigger pull. All my other semiautomatics are hammer fired DA/SA guns except my Yugo 70, which is SA only. Most are 4-5# for SA pull and 10-13# for DA pull.

All of my SA/DA guns are significantly more accurate with SA trigger pulls even with me being used to a DA trigger pull. Rapid fire, the guns that can be fired SA are much more accurate than the DAs. I can rapidly put 5 rounds in a coffee can at 10yds easy with one of my Glocks firing about a round a second. Or my P1. Or my Cz82. Etc. DA revolver I'd have a hard time putting 5 rounds, 1 a second, into a pie plate at 10yds. My revolvers in SA and careful aiming are significantly more accurate than any of my semi-autos. Both off hand and from a rest. Some helps they are all 6+" barrels so it is a longer sight radius, even than my 6.6" barreled Glock 21L. But also higher inherent accuracy with the fixed barrel and some extra weight helping them be steadier off hand (and pretty good sights on my 27-2 and Dan Wesson). Not too important if you are talking self defense shooting. Fast accurate fire is the most important. And volume of fire/capacity is also very important.

Totally agree. I love revolvers and even got the SIG p250 for the revolver pull in a semi. Very accurate on stationary targets iif you know how to stage the pull and have solid fundamentals. That being said, it is definitely much harder for me to make fast and accurate hits with them in a dynamic scenario. This issue is magnified by the lower capacity of the revolver. I'm sure with tons of training this can be somewhat mitigated, but revolvers always come up in discussions regarding what gun is best for an untrained shooter. This to me makes little sense. I've often seen the less experienced shooter use a revolver at the range by cocking the hammer every shot because they don't like the da. That is just all going to go so great when they actually have to use the thing under stress. What if they cock the gun and don't have to fire. Are you really going to trust them to safely decock the gun?

With options like the Ruger 380 max, ez shield, PDP-F, etc you have something the less trained individual could actually use effectively. Not a shiny talisman that they can't shoot and might give false confidence and get them killed. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Brent]

Didn’t read all the posts. But if shooting the .38spl, flat nose bullets create more shock on game. Lead flat nose moving at a respectable speed more so (if recoil sensitive toward .357)


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[Bob A]

I ****** up on an auction and bought a Colt PP that I thought was 38 spl,, but was act 38 S&W. Nice piece, great blue, MOP grips.

Took it to the range with my>80 year old mom who was dead nuts accurate with it and loved the experience.

Mom did not care for my G19 or XDM 45 or 38 spl.

380, 32 acp, or 22 mag may be considerations.

Gotta match the hatch.

Years ago, I picked up a S&W Hand Ejector in 32S&W Long.

It has a 3.5" barrel, near zero felt recoil, nice and compact, and is one of the most pleasant revolvers to shoot that I've ever owned. Pretty, too.

I'm sure it would charm the socks off any lady of advanced years.

I also have a nice old Webley Mk IV in 38S&W. A little bigger, and maybe a little more fun, as it ejects all the cases when you pop it open.

All in all, a small six-shooter may not be what you want when confronted by a 250 pound hormone monster on PCP, but it will make a normal perp pause and reflect, and will certainly put enough holes in him to make him regret his life choices. And it will do so comfortably in the hands of a little old lady, without having to struggle with slides, safeties, mags and recoil.

 

[Bob A]

Didn’t read all the posts. But if shooting the .38spl, flat nose bullets create more shock on game. Lead flat nose moving at a respectable speed more so (if recoil sensitive toward .357)


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I'm all for flat nosed bullets. I wouldn't feel bad about carrying a cylinder full of wadcutters, and some mfrs make that sort of load in pressures suitable for social work.

 

[RFBfromDE]

An SP101 has been my “nightstand” gun for decades.

I shot the last of my .357 stash and do not plan on replacing it.

It’s .38 or .38+P from now on.

I would not want to shoot .357 in my house!

 

[Brent]

I'm all for flat nosed bullets. I wouldn't feel bad about carrying a cylinder full of wadcutters, and some mfrs make that sort of load in pressures suitable for social work.

Heck raccoons will shrug off a RN ball .38, but put a flat or wad cutter on them, they flop right over. Hell, a lead ball is nasty stuff on soft tissue! End of the day. Get something you can shoot, are willing to shoot a lot, can afford to shoot a lot.

Many reputable choices out there. Good luck on your search!


Edit to say - Ricky will still expire from that .38 ball, but you want something that you can dependably get a good stopping hit with!

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[Biggfoot44]

Refer to post #73 ( without my quoting entire post ) .

Smoothness and consistency and weight per se are different things .

S&W Factory specs call for DA of 10-14 lb , and SA of 4-5 lb . 12 lb is plausible average with my finger that has tested a Lot of revolvers .

A well broken in , or skillfully honed centerfire can drop another pound or so and still be reliable . Rimfire actually needs harder " smack " for reliable ignition , and will have to stay in upper end of spec .

But a main point is that the trigger pull of a DA/SA auto is way way worse than a DA revolver. My P22x Sig is actually as good as an average Revolver , and it's the best I've ever personally shot . ( I've been told the DAO variant of the PX-4 is even better . But it's the least common variant , and I have yet to see one in the flesh .)

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Whatever you do train with the firearms that you intend to use. Train for safekeeping of a firearm. Train for the defensive use and train so often that shooting that firearm becomes second nature. It doesn't make sense just to buy a firearm and throw it in a nightstand.

 

[308Scout]

Whatever you do train with the firearms that you intend to use. Train for safekeeping of a firearm. Train for the defensive use and train so often that shooting that firearm becomes second nature. It doesn't make sense just to buy a firearm and throw it in a nightstand.

This 100%. I would only add train for and provide maintenance around the modes of failure that are possible with whatever firearm you've decided to use wherever possible. This part is generally much easier on a semi than a revolver (i.e., you can engineer them into drills on a semi), albeit with the odds of failure on the latter generally much lower (but non-zero).

Revolver Malfunctions and Stoppages – RevolverGuy.Com

revolverguy.com

 

[Cold Steel]

What is everyone's thoughts on using a 357 Magnum or 38 Special for Defense and Target Practice? Which one would be considered better and why? Is there a huge difference in ammunition costs between the 357 Magnum and 38 Special?

The .357 Magnum is the most outstanding versatile caliber made, in my view. And it's too bad Ruger stopped making its amazing Security-Six line of revolvers!

125gr JHP: Against humans, there is no greater manstopper than the 357 125gr JHP. It's even been used to drop mid-size deer, if you're a hunter. Gun writer and former cop Mas Ayoob has said the 125gr JHP is the gold standard for use against humans, even if they're wasted on drugs and otherwise difficult to stop.

COP KILLER BULLETS: In the late 70s/early 80s, cities all over the United States were trying to ban Teflon-coated bullets that the media insisted could kill cops. Of course it the Teflon had nothing to do with it. It was the steel core that caused it to defeat all the bullet-resistant vests in use at the time! Thus, fueled by the media, all Teflon-coated bullets were targeted for banning.

What the media didn't know, but Mas Ayoob (and the NRA, for whom I worked at the time) did, was that the 125gr/JHP also could poke holes in the bullet-resistant vests cops wore all day long! Had that been known at the time, the entire shooting world would be far different today! It was a dark time then. Even today, a 125gr/JHP is extremely uncomfortable to be shot with, even with a vest. True, it won't penetrate modern vests, but it it's worse than being shot with other handgun loads.

ADDENDUM: The media never was successful in teaching violent criminals to attain the Cop Killer Bullets. But the issue did cause criminals all over the United States to increase tactics such as laying in wait and ambush attacks. Anyone with reloading equipment can produce steel bullets. But that was too much trouble for violent criminals, so they would hide in stair wells and wait for cops to show up. Then they would go for head shots when the cops showed up. So the media actually taught violent criminals to kill cops!

158gr/JHP: Finally, the 158gr JHP .357 is a great round to use for hunting. Like the 125 JHP, it's a violent round. But it's very good for penetration. It's not to be used for two-legged varmints if it can be avoided, but it's great for most other applications. Years ago, in California, the California HWP had a running gun battle with a violent criminal. They had 357 158gr/JHPs, the bad guy had a .45ACP. He was able to take out three HWPs before one of the California cops got him.

I love the 357 Magnum. The ABSOLUTE BEST ones made today are the S&W 686 in 4-/6-inch models. Next in line are the Ruger GP-100s. I could go on, but everyone has their own views.

 

[Michigander08]

I have S&W air weight snub nose revolver (.38). It kicks like a mule and my hand feels like being smacked for every shot. I don't practice with it often. It is for up close and personal space; I don't intend to hit bullseye with it at long distance like a semi-auto.

 

[Bountied]

I have S&W air weight snub nose revolver (.38). It kicks like a mule and my hand feels like being smacked for every shot. I don't practice with it often. It is for up close and personal space; I don't intend to hit bullseye with it at long distance like a semi-auto.

The air weight is nice to carry but not so much to shoot. I feel ya.

 

[TI-tick]

I have S&W air weight snub nose revolver (.38). It kicks like a mule and my hand feels like being smacked for every shot. I don't practice with it often. It is for up close and personal space; I don't intend to hit bullseye with it at long distance like a semi-auto.

?
I have 2 airweight S&W's; 360 and 642 IIRC.
+P loads really smack the web of my hand like a big mammeried redhead domiatrix. But standard 38 loads I can go all day on.

Hi viz sights help me with aiming.

357 in an airweight; not for me.

 

[TI-tick]

The air weight is nice to carry but not so much to shoot. I feel ya.

You guys must be shooting hot loads. I'm 5'8" average Boomer build and love my airweight 360.

 

[Bountied]

You guys must be shooting hot loads. I'm 5'8" average Boomer build and love my airweight 360.

+p+

 

[TI-tick]

+p+

FTS in an airweight; you must be out of your mind!
I ran through about 20 rounds and said enough; this sucks.

 

[babalou]

A defensive gun is always a trade off. It’s a compromise of size, weight, and stopping power. .38 SPL has a very long history. It’s a reasonable self-defense round. .357 has more stopping power. If you choose to use a revolver as a carry gun, a .38 is adequate. I would look for something in .357. You can shoot .38 SPL at the range. Use .357 for defense. .357 Is a bit more expensive.

In the home, I’d not recommend a revolver at home. A wise man once said, to paraphrase, the purpose of a pistol is to fight your way to a rifle. For HD, I’d go AR. Good hunting/HD ammo. Shotgun with buckshot/purpose built HD ammo is reasonable as well.

God I love it when you talk dirty.