2/14 House Ways & Means - Firearm Related Legislation Hearings

[TopShelf]

Scheduled as of 02.03.14 @ 16:20

HB0415 - Sales and Use Tax - Ammunition and Firearms - Developmental Disabilities Funding
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2014RS/bills/hb/hb0415F.pdf

Position: You tell me

Why one might oppose:
* additional bookkeeping for retailers

Link to calendar
* all committees
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...schedpage&id=0&stab=02&tab=subject2&ys=2014RS

* House ways and means on the 14th
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...chedpage&id=20140214-w_m&stab=02&tab=subject2

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Is it a tax increase of a redirect of the funding? Last time I looked at that bill, I didn't see a value for tax increase. Last year it was proposed to be a 50% tax. This year, that section is not there.

 

[Mr H]

Is it a tax increase of a redirect of the funding? Last time I looked at that bill, I didn't see a value for tax increase. Last year it was proposed to be a 50% tax. This year, that section is not there.

If you take a look at the tax statutes, there is a placeholder for last year's bill!!

I do know it's being investigated, so even though the language appears to be a redirect, there is still the possibility (however slim) that last year's 50% could be slid under the door.

In any case, this becomes a potential bookkeeping nightmare and undue records burden on retailers, which would have to identify the affected sold items.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

If you take a look at the tax statutes, there is a placeholder for last year's bill!!

I do know it's being investigated, so even though the language appears to be a redirect, there is still the possibility (however slim) that last year's 50% could be slid under the door.

In any case, this becomes a potential bookkeeping nightmare and undue records burden on retailers, which would have to identify the affected sold items.

Glad you are on it, mr h. When I was in Naptown last week, wasn't able to dig in on it.

So they put a placeholder in the budget for that income? In other words, they were counting on income from that 50% ammo tax?

 

[TopShelf]

Updated. Thanks for the feedback and additional info!

 

[Mr H]

Glad you are on it, mr h. When I was in Naptown last week, wasn't able to dig in on it.

So they put a placeholder in the budget for that income? In other words, they were counting on income from that 50% ammo tax?

Hard to say... I'm not sure how 'normal' it is to have that 'placeholder', but it sure smells like something they still want to do.

With as busy as the friendlies are right now filing legislation, I don't know what progress has been made on figuring it out.

 

[Mr H]

We now know that there is no additional taxation related to this bill, and it is simply a reallocation of the sales/use tax on firearms and ammunition.

Well, maybe not so "simply"...

What this does, is create an additional burden on FFLs and other retail establishments, to require them to account and report separately for all sales taxes related to firearms and ammunition.

I have already alerted an official of MLFDA about this, but it is important that every independent seller of "guns and ammo" be made aware of this, and have them get to Analpolis on the 14th, to fight this as an undue encumbrance on their businesses.

This bill doesn't directly effect the purchaser... but it would add to the complexity of an already overregulated business environment, and could cause businesses great harm.

 

[TopShelf]

Thanks. Updated

 

[Mr H]

At this point, I will be able to get to the hearing by apx 3PM.

I will try to develop something cogent in written form to have it submitted, but no way I can be there in time to give oral testimony.

 

[DC-W]

I wanted to submit testimony on this, but I don't know how much of a dog I have in this fight.

I am not a FFL or otherwise seller of ammunition or of accessories. Of course it's just another undue burden, but I probably can't articulate an argument against this like retailers can.

 

[Mr H]

If the retailer has to hire additional staff for cost that's not offset by new income, or closes their doors, that will have an effect.

Just off the cuff...

Really, the best thing we can do is to rile up our LGS friends, and get them to head down (or at lease submit testimony), and be there to support them.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

I want to know why they are connecting these factions of society together, what happens when the fund they allocate the money to has an overrun - does this mean they can change the tax rate, and generally why they are doing this allocation.

I know we are not allowed to ask them questions. Maybe the best way to get those answers is to frame testimony with preposterous assumptions and force the answers.

 

[Mr H]

I want to know why they are connecting these factions of society together, what happens when the fund they allocate the money to has an overrun - does this mean they can change the tax rate, and generally why they are doing this allocation.

I know we are not allowed to ask them questions. Maybe the best way to get those answers is to frame testimony with preposterous assumptions and force the answers.

This has been on my mind as well.

It opens up a range of messy things, while setting Cardin up as the rescuer of the Developmentally Disabled.

 

[Mr H]

Having trouble finding this...

Does anyone know of any other sales tax carve-outs like the one proposed in this bill? Any other specific categories of goods or services that need to be accounted separately, and diverted from the general revenue stream?

If there aren't any, then this may not fly as-is... then we could be looking at amendments to create a new tax after all...

 

[deesly1]

Please someone correct me if I am wrong. If heller said that the right to own a handgun is just that a constitutional right. How can that right be taxed? So how is taxing the sale of firearms even constitutional. We do not tax the right to vote. By charging 5% to register party affliation. Maybe I am reaching but really??!!??

 

[montoya32]

I oppose any additional legislation period. Unless there is a new "threat" or something that has been developed in the last 6 months that did not exist before, then we ought to be removing laws, not creating more. Also, additional taxes? Don't even ask. We should be reducing taxes. Aside from the weather, look at the fiscal growth from states like Florida. No state sales taxes, lower cost of living and they are growing daily. Maryland needs to wake up. You attract more citizens by reducing restrictions and taxes, not increasing them.

 

[Mr H]

I oppose any additional legislation period. Unless there is a new "threat" or something that has been developed in the last 6 months that did not exist before, then we ought to be removing laws, not creating more. Also, additional taxes? Don't even ask. We should be reducing taxes. Aside from the weather, look at the fiscal growth from states like Florida. No state sales taxes, lower cost of living and they are growing daily. Maryland needs to wake up. You attract more citizens by reducing restrictions and taxes, not increasing them.

Then you should be furious over most of the bills proposed for Friday's hearing. Some good ones, but mostly new hassles.

See you there??

 

[montoya32]

Then you should be furious over most of the bills proposed for Friday's hearing. Some good ones, but mostly new hassles.

See you there??

I will be down on the 26th and March 4th?, cannot make it this Friday. Having the bills spread out over so many days makes it very difficult to stay on top of them and show the opposition.

 

[Mr H]

Please someone correct me if I am wrong. If heller said that the right to own a handgun is just that a constitutional right. How can that right be taxed? So how is taxing the sale of firearms even constitutional. We do not tax the right to vote. By charging 5% to register party affliation. Maybe I am reaching but really??!!??

We already pay sales tax on firearms and ammo, if only because it's a retail transaction. No different in that than for a baseball bat, a new grill, or even a car.

But, I'm not aware that the sales tax on anything else gets peeled off like this (except maybe the extra 3% on alcohol sales? Sh!t... Does that open up a new avenue for them?)

This seems to be the point of the bill... to ostensibly help a vulnerable segment of the population through encumbering a legal sale with which they disagree.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

We already pay sales tax on firearms and ammo, if only because it's a retail transaction. No different in that than for a baseball bat, a new grill, or even a car.

But, I'm not aware that the sales tax on anything else gets peeled off like this (except maybe the extra 3% on alcohol sales? Sh!t... Does that open up a new avenue for them?)

This seems to be the point of the bill... to ostensibly help a vulnerable segment of the population through encumbering a legal sale with which they disagree.

Exactly.

No questions allowed though.

So many need answered...

So what happened with alcohol tax? Is there a clear history on it somewhere? Might provide a good framework for the assumption approach.