1911 Cost vs Quality

[GreyPaladin]

les baer

I've had and used a Les Baer Premier II for 16 years and its never given me a minutes trouble. I can't say that for a Kimber that I bought 3 years ago that was back to their shop twice before I got rid of it. If you want to spend the money the LB is the way to go or if you're really loaded a Wilson or Nighthawk. The RIA aren't quite as refined as the others but seem to be very durable and work well for being inexpensive.

 

[Warpspasm]

A nice entry level 1911 is the Metroarms Firestorm Government Deluxe. It's a nice shooter, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

The downside is the rollmark on the slide.

I've only put about 200 rounds through mine, but I love it. The fit and finish is tight and it's very accurate.

 

[Magnumite]

Never said Colt wasn't a decent gun. I don't want to derail the OP's thread, trbon8r. Start a thread or pm me and I'll list why Colt doesn't compete with a Baer, Wilson, etc. in that class of 1911.

 

[clandestine]

Never said Colt wasn't a decent gun. I don't want to derail the OP's thread, trbon8r. Start a thread or pm me and I'll list why Colt can't compete with a Baer, Wilson, etc. in that class of 1911.

I dont believe Trbon8r was saying a stock Colt was better than a Wilson or Baer, what he was saying with just some patience, picking the right parts and the right pistolsmith that the colt will exceed fit, finish, reliability, and accuracy of any semi production 1911 from all the std semi custom manufacturers, and hes right.

IMHO many people dont know quality Smithing from basement junk work or shoddy production line fitting. People arent patient enought to wait for quality from a good smith and they are too cheap to pay for good work and parts. They simply sttle for "good enough" which is fine if your on a budget, but when the "good enough" people try and compare their production built BAER to a Custom Colt, theres no comparison, the Custom Colt wins.

 

[trbon8r]

You weener, I already have so many 1911's to do Ill never get to quit Smithing. Start saying bad things about me.

It is a shame you want to quit. It just so happens I am the proud owner of the one and only existing prototype Lorcin 1911, serial #13. I was hoping to bring it by and see if you can get it running for me? I thought it would be a good final project and a true test of your 1911 tuning skills before you ride off into the sunset to Broke Glock Mountain.

I really do need your help. The last smith I took it to couldn't fix it. His wife called and told me to come pick up the gun. She said she found her husband with my gun and a whiskey bottle sitting in the corner of his shop crying. She said in between sobs he kept mumbling something about "that Browning fellow", family trees, and Satan or some such. Now I don't have a gunsmith because he is in some sort of special hospital.

I'd like to save as much money as possible because I need to buy a Mosin Nagant. I do have a box of some used 1911 parts I bought at the gun show if that helps. I can't remember if the seller said they were take off parts from a Kimber or Auto Ordnance. I would really appreciate your help.

 

[trbon8r]

I dont believe Trbon8r was saying a stock Colt was better than a Wilson or Baer, what he was saying with just some patience, picking the right parts and the right pistolsmith that the colt will exceed fit, finish, reliability, and accuracy of any semi production 1911 from all the std semi custom manufacturers, and hes right.

IMHO many people dont know quality Smithing from basement junk work or shoddy production line fitting. People arent patient enought to wait for quality from a good smith and they are too cheap to pay for good work and parts. They simply sttle for "good enough" which is fine if your on a budget, but when the "good enough" people try and compare their production built BAER to a Custom Colt, theres no comparison, the Custom Colt wins.

This is exactly what I meant.

 

[Magnumite]

A full custom gun was not the subject. A Colt with some work done to it was - that was the comparison. I threw out another perspective and trbon8r took a burn to it and responded with the custom gun route. I understand the differences.

 

[clandestine]

It is a shame you want to quit. It just so happens I am the proud owner of the one and only existing prototype Lorcin 1911, serial #13. I was hoping to bring it by and see if you can get it running for me? I thought it would be a good final project and a true test of your 1911 tuning skills before you ride off into the sunset to Broke Glock Mountain.

I really do need your help. The last smith I took it to couldn't fix it. His wife called and told me to come pick up the gun. She said she found her husband with my gun and a whiskey bottle sitting in the corner of his shop crying. She said in between sobs he kept mumbling something about "that Browning fellow", family trees, and Satan or some such. Now I don't have a gunsmith because he is in some sort of special hospital.

I'd like to save as much money as possible because I need to buy a Mosin Nagant. I do have a box of some used 1911 parts I bought at the gun show if that helps. I can't remember if the seller said they were take off parts from a Kimber or Auto Ordnance. I would really appreciate your help.

Ok I about died reading that one.

 

[peafarmer]

Innocent question:
Other than a custom build, why are the prices of the "quality" 1911's so high? I would think that the original service 45 was cost effective, hence its selection by the military. We have a basic design over 100 years old that we are tweaking, 39 ounces of steel, or so, mass produced, using computerized equipment for $1800...(Les Baer)? I can buy a reliable Toyota / Honda that weighs 1000 times as much, has electronics, safety testing, much more complex, for 10 times as much. All this said, I am looking at the Ruger SR1911. Chad, do you think this gun can be gussied up to be as good as Baer et al.?
Thanks, Andy

 

[swinokur]

I have a DW Heritage. Only DW on the roster IIRC.

Great quality. No Schwarz or Colt 80 BS safety either.

Reasonable price for the gun you get (IMO)

I had a Kimber TLE/RL II and had no problems with it either.

 

[peafarmer]

Swinokur, not sure if you are responding to my rant, but I have heard good things about CZ / Dan Wesson. It looks like another good candidate for reliable / cost effective 1911...

 

[swinokur]

I was just saying I think the DW Heritage is worthy of consideration. I consider it a better "value" than the Baer or WC or Brown's because it is an excellent quality, simple 1911 for around 1k.

 

[garyad]

I say buy what you like and take every answer to you original question for what they are, opinions. Go out and shoot a few and go from there. JMO

 

[Demoneyes86]

You can turn any of them into a great gun with a little time for tuneing and a little money i just purchased my first. A ria tactical i plan to tweak it till i am happy eventually when funds allow i plan to get a nice springfield or a colt.

 

[Deep Creek Rock]

Compairing a production gun like S&W, Kimber, Springfield, Remington, Ruger to handbuilt customs like Ed Brown Les Baer, Wilson Combat is not going to be the same.

That being said productions guns are not a bad buy either. Some of these production guns, are giving custom jobs a run for the money in terms of accuracy. Your paying a higher price for customs, for the craftsmanship. You wont find many MIM parts in a custom piece. Everything is hand fitted on customs for the most part. Theres some truely works of art customs out there.

That being said - the best custom gun in the world isnt going to make one ioutta of difference, if you cannot shoot a pistol and use proper techniques. Buying a high end gun is not a guaranteed ticket to accuracy if you cannot grip a pistol properly. Theres more to pistol shooting then what gun you fire. Some people can fire a GI model 1911 more accurate, then in an inexperienced pistol shooter firing a high end gun.

 

[BeltBuckle]

I'd like to save as much money as possible because I need to buy a Mosin Nagant. .

Hell, man, dumpster dive for a weekend for coke cans to recycle and there's your mosin....

 

[peafarmer]

I guess my idea of "custom" is working with a gunsmith to create a truly one-of-a-kind piece. I'm not in that market now, but may be at some point in the future. For curiosity's sake, how much does it cost to have one custom built by your local friendly gunsmith?

 

[swinokur]

chad?

 

[sgt23preston]

Sgt Preston here...

Bang for the buck huh..?

I have a couple of 1911's, a 45 ACP, & a 9mm...

Both are Springfield "Loaded" model pistols...

Both of mine are Stainless Steel & have all the modern Target Enhancements such as:
Adjustable sights
Full length 2 piece guide rod
Target grade trigger 5-6 pound pull
Target grade barrel & bushing
Lowered & flared ejection Port
Loaded chamber indicator
Cocobolo wood grips
Skeletonized light weight hammer
Light weight speed trigger with an adjustable stop...
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=24

Price ? = I saw a NEW 45 Cal listed on Gunbroker this morning for $939.00...

BTW both of mine were PERFECT right out of the box on day 1...

All my shots print predictably where I release them with factory ammo...

Hope this is helpful..!

 

[mikec]

I guess my idea of "custom" is working with a gunsmith to create a truly one-of-a-kind piece. I'm not in that market now, but may be at some point in the future. For curiosity's sake, how much does it cost to have one custom built by your local friendly gunsmith?

When I had my Colt customized it was by a young gunsmith out of GA. I had a list of parts I wanted and Chris had his views on some. My idea of what the gun would look like or be never changed, just the brand of the trigger or the bushing. His labor wasn't as high as some bigger name gunsmiths because he was still building his "name". A Ted Yost or Chuck Rogers gun will usually be more expensive because they have a reputation and the market will usually pay for one of their guns. Some of the guns made by the name gunsmiths will sell in a few hours after being listed for sale. One Rogers gun sold in 16 hours after he put it out on the market.

Price is dependent on what you are having done to the gun. Time = money. A gun with French borders will cost more than one without, because the gunsmith has to spend time to cut them.