10 Round Magazine CCW / Wear & Carry

[4g64loser]

Sunrise, assertion that something is illegal is both factually incorrect and, since the dipshits doing it are taking money in exchange for their supposed expert opinions and services to the student, inexcusable.

Even coloring the statement by saying that "it might be held against you" is a crock.

If I am convicted of felony assault or battery in any degree, the penalty for that is enough to cost me.my gun rights and significantly higher than the magazine charge. It is a foolish thing to base your survival decision making on.

I will not be convinced that what you posit is what worthless shit (WAS) actually said because we have pages of direct accounts of students that tells us otherwise.

If you wish to carry 10 round mags, please do so. I don't feel the need to comment on your magazine selection unless you post a thread seeking same. If you feel the need to tsk tsk my magazine selection, examine your reasons for doing so carefully. Then take some training where people actually shoot at each other (not with live ammo, preferably). Once you have done that, please tell us about how much you wanted smaller mags for your next FoF training evolution.

 

[Mark75H]

Cite it or shut it.

 

[4g64loser]

Cite it or shut it.

Well put, Sir.

 

[Sunrise]

Sunrise, assertion that something is illegal is both factually incorrect and, since the dipshits doing it are taking money in exchange for their supposed expert opinions and services to the student, inexcusable.

Even coloring the statement by saying that "it might be held against you" is a crock.

If I am convicted of felony assault or battery in any degree, the penalty for that is enough to cost me.my gun rights and significantly higher than the magazine charge. It is a foolish thing to base your survival decision making on.

I will not be convinced that what you posit is what worthless shit (WAS) actually said because we have pages of direct accounts of students that tells us otherwise.

If you wish to carry 10 round mags, please do so. I don't feel the need to comment on your magazine selection unless you post a thread seeking same. If you feel the need to tsk tsk my magazine selection, examine your reasons for doing so carefully. Then take some training where people actually shoot at each other (not with live ammo, preferably). Once you have done that, please tell us about how much you wanted smaller mags for your next FoF training evolution.

These instructors did a total disservice to their students by completely misstating MD Law on 10 Round Magazines. The fact that people paid good money to get incorrect information is infuriating.

Thankfully I wasn't the recipient of this inaccurate instruction. The most charitable thing I can say about the instructors is that maybe they intended to say something else and poorly communicated it, but that's very unlikely IMHO. It shouldn't have happened, period. Why would it occur to you that I'm defending anything about what happened here? I'm clearly not.

As for MSI: MSI isn't saying anything factually incorrect about MD Law, and I'm citing them word-for-word.

What MSI says here should be part of any MD Wear & Carry Course IMHO. Students should know the potential legal implications of carrying "Plus 10" Magazines. This isn't to scare anybody. It's to inform. People can make their own decisions from there after receiving accurate information.

I'm not commenting on your magazine selection, and I don't honestly care what you choose to carry. I'm citing MD Law on "Plus 10" Magazines as stated by MSI which affects everyone who carries in MD.

 

[Sunrise]

Cite it or shut it.

Agreed.

 

[Mark75H]

Unfortunately, the new W&C required curriculum, doesn't mention this.

 

[Applehd]

With today's ruling by 4CA... their new curriculum may be in trouble as well...

 

[Cool_Moo5e]

Your instructor is misled or just misleading because of their views on them. you can use them in any legal action the police can't really ask how you obtained that mag because there is no ruling on you having to keep a record of purchase on the mag.

 

[rbird7282]

These instructors did a total disservice to their students by completely misstating MD Law on 10 Round Magazines. The fact that people paid good money to get incorrect information is infuriating.

Thankfully I wasn't the recipient of this inaccurate instruction. The most charitable thing I can say about the instructors is that maybe they intended to say something else and poorly communicated it, but that's very unlikely IMHO. It shouldn't have happened, period. Why would it occur to you that I'm defending anything about what happened here? I'm clearly not.

As for MSI: MSI isn't saying anything factually incorrect about MD Law, and I'm citing them word-for-word.

What MSI says here should be part of any MD Wear & Carry Course IMHO. Students should know the potential legal implications of carrying "Plus 10" Magazines. This isn't to scare anybody. It's to inform. People can make their own decisions from there after receiving accurate information.

I'm not commenting on your magazine selection, and I don't honestly care what you choose to carry. I'm citing MD Law on "Plus 10" Magazines as stated by MSI which affects everyone who carries in MD.

They didn't. When we've had probably 20 or so people post on this forum about all of the incorrect information they received in their W&C class from Worth A Shit, it's not misinformation, it's outright lying.
Out of any reviews of permit instructors I've read, they have to be the absolute WORST.
There's an entire thread devoted to bad W&C instruction and they probably make up 80% of it.

 

[Sunrise]

Unfortunately, the new W&C required curriculum, doesn't mention this.

It's surprising to me that it doesn't.

 

[rbird7282]

With today's ruling by 4CA... their new curriculum may be in trouble as well...

I can't wait for the day when there is no curriculum

 

[Sunrise]

They didn't. When we've had probably 20 or so people post on this forum about all of the incorrect information they received in their W&C class from Worth A Shit, it's not misinformation, it's outright lying.
Out of any reviews of permit instructors I've read, they have to be the absolute WORST.
There's an entire thread devoted to bad W&C instruction and they probably make up 80% of it.

It's a disgrace. No question about it.

 

[Mark75H]

It's surprising to me that it doesn't.

Because even they think it is irrelevent.

 

[Sunrise]

Because even they think it is irrelevent.

I think having these legal components is really important, not to scare anybody, but to inform them.

Back when VA allowed people to do a CCW course online, a number of people I know used Rocket CCW, which was actually free: https://rocketccw.com/ (It's defunct now, given the change in VA law to require in-classroom instruction.) Many people finished the online course in 15-30 minutes and got a certificate to send in to VA with the application.

Ryan Cleckner (https://ryancleckner.com), a former Special Operations Sniper/Sniper Instructor and present-day firearms attorney (among many other things) (BIO), ran Rocket CCW. He was very upfront/honest to say that his VA course met the absolute bare-minimum requirements to get your VA CCW application in. He emphatically stated that you should do additional background learning while VA processed the application and he provided links to these resources. Ryan made his course available for free, in-part because it was so bare-bones that he said he felt bad charging for it, but also to encourage more people to get their VA carry permits.

 

[teratos]

Unless it’s a bad shoot, magazine capacity is not an issue. Neither is your choice of trigger, ammo, etc.

BGOS…

I carry >10 rounds of hand loaded ammo in a gun with a modified trigger. If God forbid I shoot someone, it’s because they were a threat to my life, the lives of loved ones etc.

 

[rbird7282]

Unless it’s a bad shoot, magazine capacity is not an issue. Neither is your choice of trigger, ammo, etc.

BGOS…

I carry >10 rounds of hand loaded ammo in a gun with a modified trigger. If God forbid I shoot someone, it’s because they were a threat to my life, the lives of loved ones etc.

THIS. If I have to use my gun to defend myself, the magazine capacity, ammo, and trigger are the least of my worries


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AlBeight]

One thing to consider is how a Court/Jury will treat your claim of self-defense if there's an incident and you've carried/used a firearm with a "Plus 10" Magazine.

Self-Defense is an affirmative defense to a crime, and if that claim fails, then you're guilty of a crime... which means you used a "Plus 10" Magazine in the commission of a crime.

Perhaps the instructor was attempting to communicate this?

“Plus 10” doesn’t mean what you think it does. The code you’re citing says “more than 10 rounds”.

“Plus 10” typically means a magazine extension (kit usually) that increases the standard magazine capacity by 10 more rounds. +3 increases by 3, +5..... I have several Walther mags that I installed Taylor Freelance magazine “+5” extensions on, increasing their capacities from 17 rounds to 22 rounds.

 

[Sunrise]

“Plus 10” doesn’t mean what you think it does. The code you’re citing says “more than 10 rounds”.

“Plus 10” typically means a magazine extension (kit usually) that increases the standard magazine capacity by 10 more rounds. +3 increases by 3, +5..... I have several Walther mags that I installed Taylor Freelance magazine “+5” extensions on, increasing their capacities from 17 rounds to 22 rounds.

Thank you. I'll be more clear about that going forward.

 

[Slhaney]

As I understand it, you can carry and use any capacity magazine legally. If however, you are involved in a situation where you are forced to use your weapon and the powers that be determine it was unjustified, they can tack on an additional charge for using a " high capacity magazine ". Just the way it was explained to me and I could be completely wrong.

 

[Blaster229]

Don't use a mag over 10 rounds when you go rob a bank. Other than that, don't worry about it.