Help! RE: 7.62x25 reloading

Hello, I just started loading for this cartridge recently and am having some issues. I am hoping someone can give me a hint or two to get me headed in the right direction.

I apologize for the super long post, but I really appreciate anyone who can take the time to read it and give me some suggestions.

First, I am firing these in a Yugo M57, which looked unfired when I bought it from Classic. I also have two other Yugo's and a CZ-52 I want to reload for, but all my testing is being done with this single pistol until I get things right. All four of these pistols are accurate and reliable with PPU and S&B factory ammo.

I am using the Hornady ".30 mauser" .308 SP/RN bullet, 86 grain.

I am using AA#7 powder, and have worked up an accurate load that will reliably cycle the action and eject the cartridge. I started with 7.5 grains and worked up until it cycled reliably and was accurate. I don't have a chronograph (yet). But anywhere from 8.7 to 9 grains is accurate and ejects/feeds. When I can get the rounds to chamber, I'm hitting 2-3 inch groups at 21 yards off a rest, usually with two rounds touching out of my 5 shot groups. I can live with that...

I am using the Lee 3 die set for 7.62x25, as well as the factory crimp die as the last step.

I'll outline my process to see if someone can see a glaring error in what I'm doing. Let me say I've been reloading for about 3 years and have no issues loading 9x19, 9x18, .45 ACP, .223/5.56, and 7.62x54r.

I'm using Privi once fired brass. Here goes: (sorry some of this is obvious)

1. Tumble to clean, sort and separate cases from media
2. I put several cases in a small tupperware and give it a squirt of Hornady OneShot case lube, then shake
3. Full length size/decap with the Lee sizer/decapper die
4. Clean lube off all cases
5. Run through expander die to give the absolute minimum case flare to allow bullet seating.
6. Charge each case from Lee perfect powder measure (and I weigh each load for now-once I get running I'll usually only weight every 5th to 10th)
7. Sit bullet on case mouth, slowly seat the bullet using NO crimp with the seater die.
8. Measure each for OAL, which I've tried @ 1.316'' per manual, as well as 1.325''
9. Run each round through the Lee factory crimp die

Now, I always run 5 shot strings when I'm testing reloads, and this is where I'm having issues.

Usually one out of five, the slide will fail to go into battery, just barely. A small nudge is all that's needed to correct this. The worst has been 2 out of five do this. Ejection is good, the slide is traveling all the way back to pick up the round from the mag, but it will stick open a tad sometimes.

I did some looking around and saw some people were having this issue, so they would full length size their finished round through the sizer die as the last step. I tried this, without success. It causes the neck to be loose around the bullet, to where it will spin/move. I tried the factory crimp die after this step, but still had the same issue.

Also, I'm starting with a clean gun when I do this, so the chamber isn't dirty or anything. There's no burrs on the brass, the bullet is seated perfectly in the case (I've heard of people having trouble with bullets seating crooked).

I would appreciate any suggestions or ideas. My dad is also working on loading for his Tokarev. He is using a Lee hard cast bullet, 93 grain sized to .308 from wheel weights. Both he (with a Romanian Tokarev) and I have had the same issue with his reloads as well... Some won't chamber all the way and need a slight nudge.

Thanks for any help, criticism, etc.

The answer is more neck flare. If you look at the cases you will probably see a crease just below or at the shoulder preventing it from going into battery.

Lubing the inside of the case necks slightly will help the bullet seat easier as well.

Good luck, these are a different animal than straight walled pistol cartridges.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

Thanks!

I'm going to load up some dummy rounds and try what you suggested, see if it helps.

I'm also going to take some dummy rounds, color them up with a permanent marker, and cycle them through and see where it is binding if your suggestion doesn't work.

I'm looking forward to getting this fixed, I think I have a good load worked up, just need to work out the kinks.

I hear the CZ-52 chambers are usually tighter than the Tokarev variations, so I would probably be having even more issues if I was doing the testing with the CZ.

Pics of your reloads would be helpful - before fired and (especially) the rounds that are causing issues. Most TT-33's and CZ-52's are pretty forgiving on reloads. My entire herd eats almost all my reloads fine. And my loads could be anything from reformed .223 cases topped with cast boolits to Prvi or Starline cases with FMJ.

Something in your process ain't right.

Ok, I loaded up some dummy rounds and tried a couple things, wrote everything down as I went, and took pictures of the end product, so here goes.

And THANKS for the help!

I sized some once fired PPU brass. After sizing, the brass ranged from .977 to .984'', with most being right around .978-.980 out of 20 cases I sized. All my brass has been in this range, which I found slightly weird because trim length is suggested as .988'' and these are nowhere near that. I checked my dads once fired starline brass from his reloads, and they are even shorter.

On to the rest:

For grins, I dropped the resized brass into the barrel I removed from my test Tokarev, they all dropped in and out just fine as expected.

The first five dummies I made, I adjusted for generous flare as suggested by Winterborn. I then seated 5 bullets to 1.325''.

I took them straight from the seater die and tried dropping them into the barrel. 3 out of the 5 binded. Two plunked in and out no problems. I couldn't see anything visually different between the ones that did and didn't...

I took those 5 and ran them through the Lee Factory Crimp die. I set the die up per the instructions in that came with the FC die itself. I screwed the die down until it touches the shellplate with the ram all the way up. Then I screwed it down another 1/2 turn.

After Factory crimping these 5, all would drop in and out of the barrel with no issues.



The next 5, I went back to my very minimal flare on the expander die. Just barely enough to be able to sit the bottom of the bullet in the case neck to run up into the seating die.

I then seated the bullets in these 5 rounds, to 1.325''

Strangely, all 5 of these would drop right in and out of the barrel (before I ran them through the FC die)

I then ran them through the factory crimp die the same as the first 5, and still, all 5 would drop in and out of the barrel freely.

So, now I'm really perplexed.


I have included a picture. The ones on the left with the vertical sharpie mark on them are the ones that had minimal flare. The ones on the right with no markings were the ones that I put a generous flare on the case mouth.


I do have a theory: When I was loading my actual live rounds, I noticed some powder sticking inside the neck of the case after I charge the case. I wipe the inside out after lubing and sizing, but I guess I don't get it all.

Could some powder being inside the case neck cause a bulge after bullet seating, enough to cause the occasional failure to chamber?

That's the only difference I can see in these last 10 dummy rounds, which will ALL drop in and out freely, even the ones where I used the exact same technique I've been using. The powder is the only difference between the second set of 5 of these dummies I loaded just now.

Included is said picture

Thanks!!!

FYI: What appears to be dents in the case shoulder are just reflection/shadow.

I can't see any abnormal bulges, flaws, burs, dents, or anything in any of these.

Still haven't got this issue straightened out. I read on a post from handloader's bench that a guy shaved .007'' off the top of his shellholder because his wouldn't chamber...

I was wondering, does anyone think a RNFP bullet would feed reliably in a Tokarev or CZ52?

I was looking at these bullets and thinking i could (if needed, depending on what I get when I slug my bore) that I could just resize these if I need a smaller diameter.

http://lucky13bullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27&products_id=134

32 bucks shipped for 500 bullets is not bad...

Ok so I took a sharpie marker to my dummy rounds and inserted it in and out of the chamber of my M57 and you can see in the pic where it is binding. So, it's not the neck or the shoulder but just under.

Any ideas what could be causing that, or how to fix it?

I tried two different M57 barrels to see if the chamber was just out of spec in my test gun, but it did the same on both...

Sure the resizing die going all the way down? Look at it not just empty, but also when resizing. I read that some presses can flex.

Did you do the ink trick on a dummy that goes in easy too just to compare?

I forgot how I did it, but I got case bulge on my first Mauser Rounds right there under the shoulder. I can't recall how I made it happen, but corrected it. I should take better notes. I"m pretty sure it happened during seating. I did it on my dry run and did not notice it, then made 20 up and during inspection saw the bulges. Then pulled the bullets and did it all over again.

BTW, did you back out your seating die so that it's not doing a roll crimp at the end? I put in a sized case, go full stroke, then turn it down till it hits the top of the case, then back it out some. I think that's the right way to do it if you are not using a roll crimp and instead using a FCD (Anyone?) Since your using the FCD, you don't want roll crimp correct?

Here is an example of what I think I'm suggesting may be the problem:
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=329514

I tried to respond to your PM but it says your mailbox is full.

I took your advice and dropped an empty, resized case into the barrel, and if fit perfectly. So that tells me this is happening during seating..

I did adjust my seating die way out with the stem almost all the way down to keep it from trying to crimp while I seat. I tried extra flare before I seat to keep it from crushing the case. I can try more flare and see if that helps, but I'll really be stressing the brass.

I will also try a chamfer a bit, plus flare and see if that helps. But I used quite a lot of flare on my last run, and it still did it.... its strange.

Gotta get some sleep (night shift) but I'll give it a look tomorrow and see if I can chamfer and flare enough to keep it from bulging the case. Its so minor you can't see it without doing the magic marker trick, so hopefully it won't be tough to fix. Its only about a thousandth of an inch that's causing it to bind...

Thanks for the help!

Sent from my XT901 using Tapatalk

Measure the ID of the mouth with calipers before and after full length sizing. then post pics of the expanded round. That may clue people in on whats going on.
Maybe also show a pic of the bullet sitting in an expanded case (but not seated, just set it inside by hand.

Is it possible that you didn't back the seating die out per the instructions. Not a criticism, just a very easy item to miss in the instructions.

The 3 die steel set has the seating die for 30 Mauser and there is a small box that says if reloading for Tok to back the die out 1 to 1 1/2 turns before seating the bullet. That's what I did and then the factory crimp die and have no issue with feeding in my M57.

Melnic said:

Measure the ID of the mouth with calipers before and after full length sizing. then post pics of the expanded round. That may clue people in on whats going on.
Maybe also show a pic of the bullet sitting in an expanded case (but not seated, just set it inside by hand.

Click to expand...

I'll do that when I get off in the morning.

LGoodwin said:

Is it possible that you didn't back the seating die out per the instructions. Not a criticism, just a very easy item to miss in the instructions.

The 3 die steel set has the seating die for 30 Mauser and there is a small box that says if reloading for Tok to back the die out 1 to 1 1/2 turns before seating the bullet. That's what I did and then the factory crimp die and have no issue with feeding in my M57.

Click to expand...

I have the seating die backed as far out as possible while still being able to seat the bullet to the needed OAL, so the seating stem is screwed in almost all the way. I checked yesterday, and I think there's only 1/2 turn left before the seating stem is bottomed out. I'm not sure exactly how many turns that is, but it's probably more than 1 to 1.5. Maybe I have it too far out?

I'll check that in the morning as well.

Don't worry about me getting testy, I appreciate any and all suggestions and it's easy to miss things so I would LOVE for it to be something really stupid and simple that I overlooked!

Thanks

I would try the die screwed in until the crimp portion touches, then backed out 1 turn.

The die sides may provide some case support as the bullet seats.

When all else fails, contact Lee w/ an explanation of the problem. There is always the possibility that the dies may be defective and will have to be replaced.

Thanks again for all the help. I have a list of several things you guys have suggested to try and will work on them tomorrow. I had to work late today (after a 12 hour night shift to begin with) so it'll have to wait.

I appreciate all the tips and suggestions and will keep this updated with my progress.

Very interested to see how this turns out. My Tokarev dies are on their way. Nice to know what to expect.