Kolbe v O'Malley being Appealed to CA4

fabsroman · Sep 2, 2015

jcutonilli said:
This is because the courts still don't understand common use. They try to use a numbers based argument and come up with circular logic.

I believe that it is based on lawful uses. Back when the amendment was created concealed carry and weapons that conceal themselves as other objects were considered dangerous and unusual. This was because only criminals carried concealed. A persons honor at the time dictated that they open carry. This honor can be seen in the duels that occurred between two people, such as the one between Arron Burr and Alexander Hamilton (Hamilton called Burr names). Things have changed since then and concealed carry is considered common use. The fact that things have changed is what is confusing the court because they cannot rely on precedent.

In this case the 3d weapon would likely be considered common use because they are typically used like other firearms are typically used. Additionally the lawyer does not seem to understand that the personal manufacture of firearms has very little restrictions. The sale and possession of said weapons do have numerous restrictions.

Most of the NFA does not prevent common use however. The only portion that prevents common use is the Hughes amendment which restricts additional registrations. This effectively bans new registrations.

All you have to do is read the last two paragraphs of hers. To paraphrase:

There is no question that the manufacture of 3D printed weapons is on the rise. If allowed to continue, they might be considered common and be afforded 2nd Amendment protection. However, it isn't the law abiding citizen or the family that will be the problem, but the creation of these firearms by those that are prohibited from owning firearms. So, we need to ban them now before they get 2nd Amendment protection. We need to ban the ability of people that follow laws from being able to manufacture them, so we can prevent the prohibited people, who would be breaking the law anyway if they manufactured one, from gaining access to them.

Come on now. If being prohibited from possessing a firearm isn't enough to stop a prohibited person from possessing a firearm, is one more law going to stop them from manufacturing a firearm.

If nothing else, this article shows why the law abiding citizens should be armed to the teeth, because the criminals, who already should not possess firearms, do, and the ability to manufacture them on a 3D printer is only going to ensure that gangs and criminals can spit them out quickly without having to go to the black market dealer on the corner or having somebody do a straw purchase for them. Nope, passing a law banning the possession of a 3D printed gun will be about as effective as FSA2013 at reducing crime and gun violence and about as effective as all the drug laws are at reducing the access to illicit drugs.

BigSteve57 · Sep 3, 2015

The logic trap over common use I keep running up against is that if the gun were not in common use then what's the point of FSA2013? To restrict guns that are rare? How can the argument go both ways? I'm probably not the first person to bring this up.

fabsroman · Sep 4, 2015

6-Pack said:
Just an FYI for those who want to read an article from the recent Maryland Bar Journal:

http://www.msba.org/Bar_Bulletin/2015/09_-_September/MBJ_September_Feature.aspx

I received the Maryland Bar Journal in today's mail, and the entire issue is dedicated to the 2nd Amendment. Lots of articles and pages on the 2nd Amendment, not just the one about 3D printed guns.

I'm hoping I can find some time over the weekend to read them all, but it does not appear as though they are all anti-gun. They probably picked some authors that fall on both sides of the spectrum.

If I can read them all, I'll post my general, overall, feelings about the issue.

swinokur · Sep 4, 2015

awaiting your assessment counselor.

jcutonilli · Sep 5, 2015

fabsroman said:
I received the Maryland Bar Journal in today's mail, and the entire issue is dedicated to the 2nd Amendment. Lots of articles and pages on the 2nd Amendment, not just the one about 3D printed guns.

I'm hoping I can find some time over the weekend to read them all, but it does not appear as though they are all anti-gun. They probably picked some authors that fall on both sides of the spectrum.

If I can read them all, I'll post my general, overall, feelings about the issue.

For those that want to read the Journal themselves can find an electronic copy here http://www.msba.org/publications/barjournal/default.aspx One of the articles is by the anti-anti-gun Del. Smigiel

Not_an_outlaw · Sep 5, 2015

jcutonilli said:
For those that want to read the Journal themselves can find an electronic copy here http://www.msba.org/publications/barjournal/default.aspx One of the articles is by the anti-anti-gun Del. Smigiel

I read it. I found that the first article was kind of contradictory. It talked like the 2A and right to carry was recent. Then later it says that some states have had it for years. I guess someone will say anything to prove their point.....that it is only now an issue and never was before.

The 3D article made no sense at all. I don't think the author knows anything about ballistics or material science. I can by a metal mil for less than a 3D printer and make something that will work.

Was the author in the second article agreeing with the email sent to him and the arguments made? I might go back and re-read.

jkeys · Sep 8, 2015

It has now been a year. Is our court system that broken? Why do some cases get fast tracked while others sit for 12+ months?

aireyc · Sep 8, 2015

Well an opinion was released today that was written by Chief Judge Traxler for a case that was argued on May 13th. So now all of the judges to hear the Kolbe case have released opinions for cases they heard after Kolbe.

MDFF2008 · Sep 8, 2015

jkeys said:
It has now been a year. Is our court system that broken? Why do some cases get fast tracked while others sit for 12+ months?

Usually controversial opinions take the longest. They could be ready to rule in our favor and afraid to, or they could be looking for a mass shooting to release an opinion against us and use it as cover.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Jim12 · Sep 8, 2015

Isn't the only significance of 3D printed guns the manufacturing process and materials, which have nothing to do with "common use"?

I assumed that any gun style or model could be reproduced on a 3D printer with the right plans and software.

Isn't the writer of that piece working off an incorrect premise?

DC-W · Sep 8, 2015

Jim12 said:
Isn't the only significance of 3D printed guns the manufacturing process and materials, which have nothing to do with "common use"?

I assumed that any gun style or model could be reproduced on a 3D printer with the right plans and software.

Isn't the writer of that piece working off an incorrect premise?

Or is common use along the lines of semi-auto? Bolt action? Pump action? Lever action? Single-shot?

All pretty common. All do the same things. All fire once per trigger-pull.

dblas · Sep 8, 2015

jkeys said:
It has now been a year. Is our court system that broken? Why do some cases get fast tracked while others sit for 12+ months?

The most recent oral arguments were held on March 25th, it has hardly been 12+ months waiting for a ruling.

swinokur · Sep 8, 2015

Be glad we're not in the 9th Circuit.

Mr H · Sep 8, 2015

dblas said:
The most recent oral arguments were held on March 25th, it has hardly been 12+ months waiting for a ruling.

This thread was started a year ago Thursday.

DC-W · Sep 8, 2015

swinokur said:
Be glad we're not in the 9th Circuit.

Okay -- so we didn't get a three-ring circus.

swinokur · Sep 8, 2015

And hopefully don't need to wait 2 years for a decision.

CrazyIvan · Sep 12, 2015

Is there any sort of regulation regarding how long a court has to issue a ruling? How do you hold the courts accountable for their actions?

I know, I know, we just have to wait two weeks! ;-)

press1280 · Sep 13, 2015

CrazyIvan said:
Is there any sort of regulation regarding how long a court has to issue a ruling? How do you hold the courts accountable for their actions?

I know, I know, we just have to wait two weeks! ;-)

No regulation. There might be an undefined point at which someone pokes the panel for an opinion (Circuit chief or SCOTUS judge), but we aren't close to that. Sometimes it could be held up by dissents.

Jim12 · Sep 13, 2015

Justice delayed is justice denied.

CrazyIvan · Sep 13, 2015

Jim12 said:
Justice delayed is justice denied.

This is just pathetic.

Kolbe v O'Malley being Appealed to CA4

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