A visit from the Maryland State Police

Jaybeez · Sep 10, 2013

I wonder if any of these visits have anything else in common?

dfens42 · Sep 10, 2013

You mean like if these people are all registered to a specific political party that rhymes with treepublican?

Lex Armarum · Sep 10, 2013

Recent Visits from the MSP - Some Initial Thoughts on This Issue
In a recent thread about a visit from the MSP, I posted that folks should invoke their rights under the 4th and 5th (via the 14th) Amendments of the United States Constitution should the MSP arrive at a person's doorstep and request to see a firearm (this is also referred to a requesting to conduct a consented or consensual search). After thinking about the situation for a minute, I realized that there is a third way we can handle this situation.

If you have recently purchased an allegedly "unregulated" firearm from an out-of-state vendor and did not complete Maryland's regulated firearms paperwork (and this scenario might even extend to in-state vendors as well), then you are at risk of receiving a visit from the MSP. I recommend that you contact an attorney in advance of receiving this visit and form an attorney-client relationship. Once established, if the police show up at your door, you can advise them that you have retained counsel to handle the matter at hand and any requests or questions should go through your attorney's office. Attorneys will charge for this service but this solution is better then simply declaring your rights to the police without anyone behind you (figuratively) to back your play.

You are more than welcome to contact me. My contact information is located in the Industry Partners section of this website. For convenience, here it is:

Jeremy Robinson
Law Office of J. Robinson, Esquire LLC
(443) 535-1682
jrobinson@robinsonlaw.biz
[FONT=&quot]www.robinsonlaw.biz[/FONT]

I have somewhat of a unique practice and can provide you with the initial legal advice you need to deal with the MSPs somewhat dubious tactics.

Please remember that while the MSP is "playing nice" and not confiscating firearms at this time, they are investigating a potential "crime" when they are talking to you and your compliance with their request to conduct a consented "search" is providing the MSP with the evidence to hang you should they have a change of heart.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Just some friendly advice free of charge...

Bolts Rock · Sep 11, 2013

Jacobs and Smigiel were made aware of these visits about half an hour ago.

fabsroman · Sep 11, 2013

Ab_Normal said:
I read the Gansler opinion long before you linked it. Thanks just the same.

That applies to every firearm following that phrase.

If you had read the Gansler opinion on what a "copy" is way before I linked it, then why were you even trying to make the argument that a polymer AR-15 with the stock as a permanent part of the lower receiver would NOT be considered a copy of the AR-15?

Did you forget about that opinion?

BigToe · Sep 11, 2013

aireyc said:
It's going to suck for anyone getting called post 10/1. I bet they'll say you can't register it since it's an illegal firearm and therefore they need to confiscate. They're probably just testing the waters to see who's going to comply.

I believe the law states that you can take possession of a banned rifle after Oct. 1st, provided you have a PO from before Oct. 1st. In this case, the firearm was purchased before Oct. 1st, and so can be possessed legally.

Publius · Sep 11, 2013

BigToe said:
I believe the law states that you can take possession of a banned rifle after Oct. 1st, provided you have a PO from before Oct. 1st. In this case, the firearm was purchased before Oct. 1st, and so can be possessed legally.

You are assuming logic and common sense will prevail, but keep in mind who our AG is.

Ab_Normal · Sep 11, 2013

fabsroman said:
If you had read the Gansler opinion on what a "copy" is way before I linked it, then why were you even trying to make the argument that a polymer AR-15 with the stock as a permanent part of the lower receiver would NOT be considered a copy of the AR-15?

Did you forget about that opinion?

I don't recall taking that position. Can you please link to the thread and/or post?

erwos · Sep 11, 2013

Publius said:
You are assuming logic and common sense will prevail, but keep in mind who our AG is.

Gansler may as well be our best friend compared to what's going to happen if Frosh gets the job... just saying.

swinokur · Sep 11, 2013

What does MSP do if you don't answer the door?

Kman · Sep 11, 2013

You would think that an organization with all the tools at it's disposal could look up your friggin phone number, rather than blindside you with troopers at your front door.
Never discount the show of force for coercion and intimidation.

pwoolford · Sep 11, 2013

Since it was purchased C&C what if you sold it to someone face to face and no longer had it?

grayson71 · Sep 11, 2013

this is bullsh!t

EL1227 · Sep 11, 2013

pbharvey said:
MD compliant probably only refers to the magazine capacity.

Au contraire, mon frère ...

Both models come with fixed (pinned) stocks and heavy barrels with NO flash hider, along with 10rd mags to comply with the regs of those states listed at the time of manufacture. I was told this by S&W's distributor rep.

Ab_Normal · Sep 11, 2013

EL1227 said:
Au contraire, mon frère ...

Both models come with fixed (pinned) stocks and heavy barrels with NO flash hider, along with 10rd mags to comply with the regs of those states listed at the time of manufacture. I was told this by S&W's distributor rep.

I can't imagine S+W would run the risk of legal troubles if their legal department hadn't come to the same conclusion as every other person with elementary reading comprehension skills.

Jim12 · Sep 11, 2013

Brooklyn said:
legal defense fund.

Needed Now...

Every time this happens we need to be ready for court.

Maybe some legal experts here would consider putting together a seminar and hit the road with it around the state. I think I'd attend.

eruby · Sep 11, 2013

Bob.Bee said:
msp paid a visit to a friend of mine this morning. he bought an ar-10 from a dealer at the chantilly show, and this was the firearm they were looking for. they mentioned that it was not registered properly. they also know that he has a bunch of other firearms registered to him...

Their story: the ATF audited this dealer sometime afterwards, and wrote down all purchases made by MD residents and reported them to the State Police. Since the dealer recorded it as "Colt AR-15", the police had to investigate since it could have been an improper purchase of a regulated firearm.

Did your "friend" get the Ar-10 from SSG Tactical, as in the other two reported incidents?

I thought ATF was only concerned about Federal law. Now ATF is reporting sales that may not be kosher to the MSP? Sounds fishy to me. :tinfoil:

Lex Armarum · Sep 11, 2013

If you are in a leadership position at MSI, please contact me at your earliest convenience.

If you have received a visit from the MSP where they asked to see a firearm you recently purchased and alleged that the firearm was inappropriately transferred to you and/or requested to see your entire collection of firearms, please contact me at your earliest convenience as well.

Why? I have a contact in the news media (a somewhat major local news organization) who is interested in getting this story out. Nothing is definitive yet but my contact is asking to speak with the people who have received these visits to verify the story. You won't be able to reach me during daylight hours today (now - 5:30p) but if you leave a message, I will return your call or e-mail as soon as possible.

teratos · Sep 11, 2013

Rusty Shackleford said:
If you are in a leadership position at MSI, please contact me at your earliest convenience.

PM sent

BollingerGun · Sep 11, 2013

BillC said:
I received a visit from two officers of the Maryland State Police this morning. They rang the doorbell at 6:10 am, apparently to catch me before I could go to work (which they did).

The backstory: back in March, I purchased a heavy-barrel Colt AR-15 A3 from a Virginia dealer at the Chantilly gun show. Since it was a Colt and has a heavy barrel (not M4 or other profile), both the dealer and I agreed it was exempt from the Maryland regulated firearms and so I purchased it over-the-counter (after the normal NICS check).

Their story: the ATF audited this dealer sometime afterwards, and wrote down all purchases made by MD residents and reported them to the State Police. Since the dealer recorded it as "Colt AR-15", the police had to investigate since it could have been an improper purchase of a regulated firearm.

At their request, I retrieved the gun in question from the safe. They verified the serial number and then said I had to register the gun because it was a regulated firearm. And, apparently, the only way to register a gun in MD is to fill out all the MD regulated firearm purchase paperwork, since they insisted I had to fill it out. I tried to argue that it is a Colt and it has a heavy barrel (to which they agreed on both points), but they said it was still regulated. They pulled out a copy of the regulated long gun list and pointed to the AR-15 line, where it says AR-15s and all copies & clones "except for Colt Sporter HBAR". Since my gun is marked "Colt AR-15 A3" and not "Colt Sporter HBAR", they said it was regulated. They were polite and respectful, but very insistent that I had to fill out the paperwork. Even though I really didn't want to, I decided it was probably better to comply than fight the MSP, and filled out the paperwork. They said at some point in the future they would mail me a "not disapproved" notice, so I can take possession of the gun I already own.

Two points to this story:
1) The MD State Police are being very aggressive about tracking down any out-of-state purchases of potentially-regulated firearms.
2) The MD State Police are sticking to the exact wording of the regulated firearms list and consider any AR-15s not marked "Colt Sporter HBAR" to be regulated. This also means that it may not be possible to purchase any AR-15s after 1 Oct that aren't specifically marked "Colt Sporter HBAR", at least if the MSP has any say in the matter.

Just spoke with MSP this morning. HBAR clones of the Colt HBAR are NOT regulated. Shy of an interesting situation such as this above....MSP does not even have immediate knowledge of your ownership of a non regulated firearm.

A visit from the Maryland State Police

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