Bizarre Things Taught in HQL Class

Pinecone · Jan 17, 2016

Blaster229 said:
Anyone can become an NRA instructor.

Yes, and I do know some instructors will pass anyone to become an instructor.

But, for many people, the NRA course is good. It teaches some adult learning, how to instruct, and it gives a virtual step by step of what to instruct.

Now, an instructor out on a range trying to teach tactical techniques, or bullseye, or IDPA, or USPSA, THEY need to be well qualified in shooting.

But basic NRA classes? If you can learn the material and have some basic skills (know how to load, unload, pull the trigger), you will probably be OK. It is not rocket science.

Blackstar65 · Jan 17, 2016

Does the State have a mandated course syllabus or is it up to each instructor to created a course syllabus based on guidelines from the State?
Or are these instructors straying from the syllabus?

rseymorejr · Jan 17, 2016

Blackstar65 said:
Does the State have a mandated course syllabus or is it up to each instructor to created a course syllabus based on guidelines from the State?
Or are these instructors straying from the syllabus?

I think this is part of the problem.
The state is very vague in what they want taught so it's pretty much up to the individual instructors as long as it includes a section on Maryland Firearms law.

Mark75H · Jan 17, 2016

Blackstar65 said:
Does the State have a mandated course syllabus or is it up to each instructor to created a course syllabus based on guidelines from the State?
Or are these instructors straying from the syllabus?

rseymorejr said:
I think this is part of the problem.
The state is very vague in what they want taught so it's pretty much up to the individual instructors as long as it includes a section on Maryland Firearms law.

There is a syllabus with more than the mandate to include a section on MD law.

It doesn't go into the finest detail, but it is pretty thorough. The weakest part is probably that about MD law. Even MSP doesn't want to take a chance getting caught misquoting MD law.

93confirmedkills · Jan 17, 2016

Pinecone said:
IMO, instructors MAY add their opinions, but they should be clearly stated as THEIR OPINION.

The problem with opinions are they can get you into legal trouble. Teach from the NRA text.
These classes are made for brand new shooters. They don't have the skills and knowledge that many on this forum may have. Because you do it one way, doesn't mean it's correct. If you follow the lesson plans you're good to go. We don't form LLC's and buy huge insurance policies for nothing.

Pinecone · Jan 17, 2016

Not trying to cause trouble, but has an NRA instructor been sued? Successfully?

Just wondering.

As long as you specify that what you are saying is YOUR OPINION, you should be OK.

Also, if you get a question that is not in the lesson plans, what do YOU do? Say, sorry it is not in my lesson plans so I cannot answer?

Blackstar65 · Jan 17, 2016

I should have my MPCTC firearms instructor cert in a month or two. I may look into giving these courses.

woodstock · Jan 17, 2016

Pinecone said:
Not trying to cause trouble, but has an NRA instructor been sued? Successfully?

Just wondering.

As long as you specify that what you are saying is YOUR OPINION, you should be OK.

Also, if you get a question that is not in the lesson plans, what do YOU do? Say, sorry it is not in my lesson plans so I cannot answer?

ahem,

during the initial assessment of my students, are they taking up the sport for NRA bulls eye, training for the olympics, etc., most will say for the sport and possible self defense. i usually respond by asking the student if they would mind if we do the HQL safety course first and then answer other questions, not related to the safety course. as an NRA Refuse To Be A Victim presenter, i would like to think i have authorization in responding to the questions posed, as well as recommending more advanced courses available to them.

for those who want to try and get a Wear/Carry permit, it is abundantly clear, we are no longer discussing the HQL guidelines.

Rick3bears · Feb 13, 2016

Just my style and maybe some of you will find fault with it, but, when I teach the HQL class I use the NRA basic pistol information for the basics, I add the MD law section and give out a handout with the "banned firearms list". In my initial assessment and intro section the FIRST thing I talk about is that not everyone should have or own a gun. Some folks are just not cut out to own a gun. I also pass around a SRT trainer pistol for people to "look at" and handle. I observe how they handle the gun and watch for unsafe behaviors. For example, having someone point the gun around the room and go - "pew! Pew! Pew! while waving it around, is NOT a good sign. I also inform people that unsafe gun handling is strictly prohibited in the class and will result in me refunding your money and asking you to get your training from someone else.

I've been a NRA Basic pistol instructor for 4+ years, I'm an affiliate USCCA instructor, NRA range safety officer and not that it counts, except in teaching skills, I'm an OSHA 10/30 trainer. It's my full-time job.

DC-W · Feb 13, 2016

Rick3bears said:
Just my style and maybe some of you will find fault with it, but, when I teach the HQL class I use the NRA basic pistol information for the basics, I add the MD law section and give out a handout with the "banned firearms list". In my initial assessment and intro section the FIRST thing I talk about is that not everyone should have or own a gun. Some folks are just not cut out to own a gun. I also pass around a SRT trainer pistol for people to "look at" and handle. I observe how they handle the gun and watch for unsafe behaviors. For example, having someone point the gun around the room and go - "pew! Pew! Pew! while waving it around, is NOT a good sign. I also inform people that unsafe gun handling is strictly prohibited in the class and will result in me refunding your money and asking you to get your training from someone else. I've been a NRA Basic pistol instructor for 4+ years, I'm an affiliate USCCA instructor, NRA range safety officer and not that it counts, except in teaching skills, I'm an OSHA 10/30 trainer. It's my full-time job.

Thanks for what you do! I like the SRT idea.

I'm looking forward to becoming a NRA instructor. Taking the necessary training next month :thumbsup:

miles71 · Feb 16, 2016

I've been a NRA instructor for about 4-5 years now and a MSPQHI for about 2-3. I also have used much of the NRA basic information, but have written my lessons from scratch. My reason is the NRA classes, IMO, don't follow a very logical order of learning. The information is great, just needs to be organized a bit better. BTW I've been a teacher for 19 years, written curriculum, etc.

Not having a minimum state accepted lesson plan or curriculum is a problem. The only thing I have found is an example lesson from a state trooper's class. While nice it's not really helpful. This causes a lot of variation in classes, and sometimes misunderstandings in content.

It's to bad we can't all get together and create a governing body for the Maryland classes. This organization could adopt a curriculum, lesson plans, and even make teaching materials like power points/DVDS. Could also train new instructors. Alas, I'm a dreamer.

TD

mcbruzdzinski · Feb 16, 2016

miles71 said:
I've been a NRA instructor for about 4-5 years now and a MSPQHI for about 2-3. I also have used much of the NRA basic information, but have written my lessons from scratch. My reason is the NRA classes, IMO, don't follow a very logical order of learning. The information is great, just needs to be organized a bit better. BTW I've been a teacher for 19 years, written curriculum, etc.

Not having a minimum state accepted lesson plan or curriculum is a problem. The only thing I have found is an example lesson from a state trooper's class. While nice it's not really helpful. This causes a lot of variation in classes, and sometimes misunderstandings in content.

It's to bad we can't all get together and create a governing body for the Maryland classes. This organization could adopt a curriculum, lesson plans, and even make teaching materials like power points/DVDS. Could also train new instructors. Alas, I'm a dreamer.

TD

I believe that Cypherpunk tried to do that a few years ago but there was very little response from the training community. Perhaps it is time to try again?

SRD · Feb 16, 2016

Daughter and her boyfriend just took the HQL class,partial list of what they learned;

(1)Handgun must locked in a case and transported in the trunk.

(2)Illegal to transport guns in bed of truck because they can be stolen.
Cannot be transported in cab.

(3)Hbar is the only legal AR.

(4)Parts can be ordered online to build a "banned" AR but it will throw a flag with the authorities.

Jaybeez · Feb 16, 2016

Semper Noctem said:
Just because someone has NRA training doesn't make them smart.

I was at the NRA range yesterday and overheard an NRA instructor telling some people in his class some stupid shit. Made me shake my head.

its not the nra training that is the problem. its the extra stuff they have to make up to satisfy the legislature and msp's requirement. the part that says they have to teach md law but msp doesnt provide a syllabus.

miles71 · Feb 16, 2016

"Daughter and her boyfriend just took the HQL class,partial list of what they learned;

(1)Handgun must locked in a case and transported in the trunk.

(2)Illegal to transport guns in bed of truck because they can be stolen.
Cannot be transported in cab.

(3)Hbar is the only legal AR.

(4)Parts can be ordered online to build a "banned" AR but it will throw a flag with the authorities."

Well that's interesting............
TD

PapiBarcelona · Feb 16, 2016

I'm HQL class exempt, I'm ignorant of the HQL class.

Do the HQL instructors bring firearm lawyers with them (sounds expensive)? The few examples in this thread shows why people who aren't lawyers should refrain from giving out legal advice, stuff like above "Can't transport a handgun to the range in a pickup truck."

I guess I'm actually butt hurt (some) people are earning a nice supplemental income allwhile doing a shtick for a few hours to a bunch of people that probably won't question anything you say even when it's really obviously bad information. :rolleyes:

Is there any accountability besides giving the student something to scan saying they completed the class? Do state people come audit your teaching or is a dysfunctional free for all as it appears?

mcbruzdzinski · Feb 17, 2016

PapiBarcelona said:
I'm HQL class exempt, I'm ignorant of the HQL class.

Do the HQL instructors bring firearm lawyers with them (sounds expensive)? The few examples in this thread shows why people who aren't lawyers should refrain from giving out legal advice, stuff like above "Can't transport a handgun to the range in a pickup truck."

I guess I'm actually butt hurt (some) people are earning a nice supplemental income allwhile doing a shtick for a few hours to a bunch of people that probably won't question anything you say even when it's really obviously bad information.

Is there any accountability besides giving the student something to scan saying they completed the class? Do state people come audit your teaching or is a dysfunctional free for all as it appears?

NRA does send some 'students' to follow-up on complaints for NRA classes. This usually leads to a follow-up with the NRA instructor (if warranted).

As far as I know, MSP does not send out any 'students' to sit in on HQL or CCW classes. MSP does not require a QHIL/QHIC instructor to submit a syllabus/course outline for either the HQL or CCW class.

Lou45 · Feb 17, 2016

SRD said:
Daughter and her boyfriend just took the HQL class,partial list of what they learned;

(1)Handgun must locked in a case and transported in the trunk.

(2)Illegal to transport guns in bed of truck because they can be stolen.
Cannot be transported in cab.

(3)Hbar is the only legal AR.

(4)Parts can be ordered online to build a "banned" AR but it will throw a flag with the authorities.

Hhhmmm........

Apparently things have changed considerably since I taught my last class.

trickg · Feb 17, 2016

The gun industry is polluted by Bubba - at least that's how it seems most of the time.

Bubba behind the counter.
Bubba in front of the counter.
Bubba yapping, telling gun equivalents of fish stories to anyone who will listen, "ah bin gittin half-inch groups at 300 yards wit' da AR ah bilt!"
Bubba in quivering anger and barely contained rage while giving testimony at gun legislation hearings, complete with mossy oak camo jacket and matching hat.
Bubba is the guy the liberals like to refer to as a "gun nut."

Don't get me wrong - Bubba is usually a great guy who would give you the shirt off his back, or bust his tail in countless other ways to help out a person in need, but right now Bubba is the face of the gun industry to those who are outside of it, and we have an image problem.

Having Bubba NRA instructors babbling misinformation at HQL training classes is not going to help the issue either. We need to do better.

PapiBarcelona · Feb 17, 2016

It's one thing to hear the BS from someone like me, a nobody in a gun shop. It seems like a whole another level of stupidity to hear it from state qualified people who are supposed to be teaching (correct) material.

I realize our IP's are some of the best instructors but it appears some of their "fellow instructors" in the same industry are dropping the ball big time.

I didn't realize there was a firearm law part of the HQL class? I thought it was just in person video/web series training like we all did years ago.

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